What Apple product/s do you use?

[GTOJOE]

Scotty - close this damn thread LOL. It's annoying me. It just won't stop.

Scotty is a computer noob.... end of story good night!!!!

[J-Groove]

I'm actually going to quote myself, since this thread has gone BACK TO the only argument against apple is that is it is overpriced for what you get.

Apparently the actual price comparisons I posted up the first time were ignored.

You sure about that?

I just went to Dell and Apple.com and build a similar computer on each site, or more specifically I chose the base model iMac and built a Dell all in one that was comparable.

Yes the Dell started out at $599, but after I added on all of the extras that come standard on an iMac the price was a bit more.

Here are the specs that I could not match.

Screen size:
Dell All in One : 23" 1920 X 1080
Apple iMac: 21.5" 1920 X 1080

Processor:
D1: AMD II 2.8 ghz
iMac: i5 2.5 ghz

Video Card:
D1: ATI Radeon HD 4270
iMac: ATI Radeon HD 6750

Price:
D1: $1,138.95 + $99 shipping = $1,237.95
iMac: $1,199.00 shipped

Prices seem pretty damn close to me. The iMac is actually less expensive, but at those prices being that close it all comes down to personal preference.

The whole point of my previous post and this one, sorry Scotty that I'm helping to keep your thread off topic, is that when you match them spec for spec Apple is on par with their pricing.

The BIG difference comes that you cannot easily home build your own like you can a windows or Linux PC and save the hundreds that way.

And for the arguments about Apple computers in a work place, that point is void, 1 all of Apple's office software can open, edit and natively save out all Microsoft office files types. And in the worst case scenario, such as I have to work with Access databases, Apples come with bootcamp pre installed, my computer duel boots in Windows. Problem solved.

I own both, home built Windows PC and Apple computers. Both have their benefits and draw backs. But the constant Apple is overpriced is BS.

-John

[Jeremy C]

John - No one has ignored your one build that you put out there. I've done the comparison shop dozens of times, as I'm sure Alan has, and consistently the Apple products are more expensive than a non-Apple system with comparable parts. Congratulations on finding one particular build that goes against the grain, though!

You see, fellas, this was all just a ruse to first get you to admit that Apple uses comparable technology - which was half the battle and has now been resolved. It is at this point that all I need to answer for (as my role of the opposition) is the $500 price difference (if you're a vacuous consumer who enjoys buying things directly from the manufacturer). So let's say you do decide to pay the full, non-discounted, MSRP price. What do you get for this $500?

(had to cut this long paragraph out as I hit the 10K character limit... Sorry!!)

So here we are, the poor, unfortunate soul that bought a Mac to run Windows 7. The poor soul that has a $500 extra dent in his wallet.

I had to respond to this particular post. I was content just reading the thread and not posting any further because I know this is simply a pissing contest of "Product fan A" vs "Product Critic A" but this is a fun post. I'll just go ahead and look at each of the points seperately and post my thoughts...

1. Just from this thread alone, most would agree that Apple really spends a lot of time perfecting the look and craftsmanship of their hardware. Unibody aluminum casings, easy access points for adding/removing RAM, harddrives, etc, not skimping out on the screens they use in their laptops and iMacs. What is this attention to aesthetics worth? $50 extra? Maybe $100?

I get to pick out a chassis that specifically is tailered to my needs, in a style that I want and with the options I want. You can get a cheap-ass low-end case "that just works" or go crazy and spend $800.00 on that super tacky Thermaltake Level 10 case. You can be like me and spend $50 on a large mid tower that allows you to hide all your wiring, gives you access to everything with a tool free design, has the ability to air cool whatever components you stuff in it and looks rather good. Apple value = -$50-800.00 depending on your choice.

2. The piece of mind of having a system that isn't currently under heavy fire from hackers and viruses. For people that depend on their computers for work and don't have the time to constantly update their anti-virus software and system updates, how much is this worth? How do you put a value on piece of mind? $100? $150? It certainly might cost you a lot more to take it to the Geek Squad to get it taken care of if you aren't savvy enough (which, face it, we all know a lot of people that aren't).

Windows 7 practically forces you to install an AV program within a few minutes of first starting, and gives you a list of options, most of which are free or have free versions. I use MSE, and I can't tell you the last time I even looked at it. It does it's thing in the back ground, takes less than 20MB of ram, and it never bothers me (unless there is a major version update which has happened once since it left beta). Couple that with not downloading porn/warez/torrents from unsafe places, and my peace of mind costs nothing. Apple value = $0.00

3. What about the ease of use? Particularly for someone that may not be interested in all the bells and whistles. PC users try to twist this fact about Mac OS X/iOS into a bad thing. Yeah, Apple put a lot of time into making their system as straight-forward as can be, but for someone not like us, how much is it worth to them to not have to hunt down every little switch or system preference to turn their Wi-Fi back on? If you were to ask those "average" users we were talking about earlier, I have a feeling they'd agree that $100 isn't a bad price to pay for the time they'd get back from not having to read every single Windows 7 AND computer manufacturer technical support board.

I had to install a new wireless dongle on my kids' PC as the ancient G-band card I had in it died about 3 weeks ago. Went to store, bought the dongle I wanted, plugged into USB port, and hit the sync button on my router when prompted by Windows (did not remove software CD from box). Walked away and let kids play on Steam. If that is not ease of use, I'm not sure what is. Apple value = $0.00

4. Speaking of... what is the included, often free, technical support worth? Particularly the ability to walk your machine into an Apple Store within 365 days of purchase to have them fix whatever is needed right there on the spot - free of charge. What other hardware or software companies do this? It's a rare thing, but it must be worth something. Free workshops, most major cities, etc. Is it fair to say this is worth $100 too?

I'll give you the Apple store thing. For me, I send an email to the company I bought the part from, get a response in a day, and depending on severity get an RMA. I will mention that many of the parts in my computer have anywhere from a 3-5 year warranty, and lifetime for some parts (Thank you, EVGA). Apple value = I'll give you $10 to cover the cost of shipping that I have to do.

5. Resale value. Yeah, Thadd.... resale value. Being able to sell my two year old machine for $300-400 less than the brand new models are going for, and being able to do this consistently. For any market that is constantly and exponentially growing - finding a brand with a healthy resale value is pretty damn valuable. Being able to easily flip your computer and get a new one very two years? Value... to the tune of at least $100-150 perhaps?

My parts propegate through 2 other systems after they leave my computer (soon to be a 3rd once enough parts stack up to make a media box), so by the time they finish their 4-6 year service life, it doesn't matter what resale is any more. Couple in the fact that lower cost for used parts allow thrifty people to make better systems for less money (I just built the kid's their pc 3 months ago for $400.00 complete with an x38 MoBo, C2D 2.8GHz, 4GB ram, Win7 Pro x64, 19" monitor, blah blah blah) and resale becomes even less of a point. Apple value = $0.00.

6. And lastly, the ability to run Mac OS X and its ::shakes fist:: proprietary software like iMovie, Final Cut Pro, GarageBand, and an arguably more stable version of Microsoft Office 2011, etc. If you're a Windows guy, you may not always want to run Mac OS X, but the option is there. What is having this option worth? $39, perhaps? That's how much Snow Leopard retails for... versus Windows 7's $199.99.

Win 7 family packs can be had for $130 on Amazon.com, so the cost per license falls to about $45 each. Perfectly acceptable price for an OS. I paid $10 for my copy of Office 2010 which is perfectly legal (I got my copy of Win 7 ultimate for free from MS, but that's neither here nor there). I can't put any quantitative value to running propietary software that I've never heard of (and by the names, I could care less about), so I can't say anything about that. I wll say this: How many Mac people dual boot with Windows? Now, how many Windows user dual boot with OS X? Apparently, that proprietary software doesn't have enough value to non-Apple people to make it worth their time to dual boot (which can be made to happen with Hackintoshes). Apple value = $0.00

Let's add it all up:

• $50 - Aesthetics
• $100 - Piece of mind from not being as likely to be virused
• $100 - Ease of use
• $100 - In-person, personal and unlimited technical support
• $100 - Healthy resale value
• $39 - For the guy that loves his stable, but proprietary, Mac OS X

Total: $489

Ohh, so close! If only I can think of one more reason....

Oh, duh -- to be trendy. All the girls will dig it. $11? Sure, why not?

Anyway, all these prices are subjective - to some, the value of each of the above points might be worth more than I labeled them as. To others, it might not be worth much at all. The point being, spec for spec we're comparable, but when you really open your eyes on what other values are involved there's a quite a bit out there being ignored by the nay-sayers.

That's all I'm sayin'.

In the meantime, it's getting late but I still have a thread on another board where we're discussing a much more pressing matter: which is inferior, dogs or cats.

I'll see you guys in the morning.

My calculations put Apple value at anywhere from -$40.00 to -$790.00.

At least that's how I see their value. Just sayin.

oh - and cats are inferior, by far! At least dogs can potentially be considered sentient security systems if given the right breed. Cats... I have three, and none of them are scary in the least.

[UTRacerX9]

That seems a bit biased from you Jeremy. For example, giving Apple +$10 for having apple stores vs the cost of shipping... How about factoring in all the time lost from shipping the part/computer back, waiting for a fix, then time for return shipping? That could take days or weeks. If you rely on your computer for business, that could be worth thousands. What you value in terms of cost is purely subjective, and proves nothing.

Anyway. From the poll stats, there are 48 items from Apple being used by those who voted. Considering there are 57 votes total, that at least shows that Apple is popular, no matter what some people choose to think. As far as price goes, PCs generally give you more bang for the buck than Apple (at least in my experience.) But, there are PLENTY of times where PC's are more expensive also. (You want to compare Apple to a PC company, compare them to Sony. Sony overprices their computer crap all the time.) Just as with Apple, you are paying a bit more for the name.

As far as phones go, Apple hit a fucking home run with the iPhone, and anyone who says different is either an Apple hater, has their head in the sand, has never used one, or is completely oblivious to the fact that every company out there manufacturing phones is doing so now with the intent to "make a better iPhone."

iPod? Revolutionary. Are there other options out there that are better? Yep, but the iPod pretty much started the entire handheld music craze, and even I, who went with a competing brand, with what I feel was a better product, give Apple credit where it is due. If it wasn't for Apple coming up with the iPod, Sandisk would probably have never made their mp3 players, and we all know Microsoft sure as hell wouldn't have.

[J-Groove]

John - No one has ignored your one build that you put out there. I've done the comparison shop dozens of times, as I'm sure Alan has, and consistently the Apple products are more expensive than a non-Apple system with comparable parts. Congratulations on finding one particular build that goes against the grain, though!

Okay, I will add more comparisons to the list, not only that, I will go with great bang for the buck companies like ASUS.

Base iMac | Dell All In One | Asus ET2400 | HP 200q All In One

Here are the specs that I could not match.

Screen size:
Dell All in One : 23" 1920 X 1080
Apple iMac: 21.5" 1920 X 1080
Asus ET: 23.6" 1920 X 1080
HP: 21.5" 1920 X 1080

Processor:
D1: AMD II 2.8 ghz
iMac: i5 2.5 ghz
Asus: i5 3.2 Ghz
HP: i5 2.8 ghz

Video Card:
D1: ATI Radeon HD 4270
iMac: ATI Radeon HD 6750
Asus: NVIDIA GeForce 310M 512MB
HP: NVIDIA GeForce G210 512MB

Price:
D1: $1,138.95 + $99 shipping = $1,237.95
iMac: $1,199.00 shipped
Asus: $1,049.99 shipped (at most vendors) Newegg current promo price = $966.99
HP: $1,411.96 shipped

So again, prices seem pretty damn close to me. At those prices being that close it all comes down to personal preference.

-John

[Zaroth]

Okay, I will add more comparisons to the list, not only that, I will go with great bang for the buck companies like ASUS.

Base iMac | Dell All In One | Asus ET2400 | HP 200q All In One

Here are the specs that I could not match.

Screen size:
Dell All in One : 23" 1920 X 1080
Apple iMac: 21.5" 1920 X 1080
Asus ET: 23.6" 1920 X 1080
HP: 21.5" 1920 X 1080

Processor:
D1: AMD II 2.8 ghz
iMac: i5 2.5 ghz
Asus: i5 3.2 Ghz
HP: i5 2.8 ghz

Video Card:
D1: ATI Radeon HD 4270
iMac: ATI Radeon HD 6750
Asus: NVIDIA GeForce 310M 512MB
HP: NVIDIA GeForce G210 512MB

Price:
D1: $1,138.95 + $99 shipping = $1,237.95
iMac: $1,199.00 shipped
Asus: $1,049.99 shipped (at most vendors) Newegg current promo price = $966.99
HP: $1,411.96 shipped

So again, prices seem pretty damn close to me. At those prices being that close it all comes down to personal preference.

-John

So... lets say processor power is the major player in home and office computers.( It is.. given the amount of ram and harddrive speeds are equal in our comparison). With the IMac your buying a 2.5ghz processor. With the Asus your getting a 3.2ghz processor. Maybe your not really a computer guy so I'll assume that you don't understand that this is a considerable difference. Apple must have realized it, because if you click on the IMac right next to the base IMac you selected you will get a computer with a 2.8Ghz processor(has to be manually selected) and almost identical specs (1TB harddrive vs 500Gig, better videocard which is pretty mute for a home computer). So... yes. If you don't mind paying 650 dollars more for a similar computer(Still not up to the same power as the Asus, and I would still take the Asus's 3.2Ghz processor over the better graphics card in the Apple, but close enough for the average user I guess).

650 might not be a considerable amount to you, but I wouldn't call them anywhere near close. That price is before the 170 dollar protection plan. Without that you pay obscene amount for replacement parts.

Here is your Apple 1TB harddrive: - $300 (These drives are just your average POS Seagate drives relabeled with pretty Apple logos)
1TB SATA Hard Disk Drive Kit for Mac Pro - Apple Store (U.S.)

Here is a highend 1TB for us normal folks: - $90
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

That is anything but "pretty damn close"

[Jeremy C]

That seems a bit biased from you Jeremy. For example, giving Apple +$10 for having apple stores vs the cost of shipping... How about factoring in all the time lost from shipping the part/computer back, waiting for a fix, then time for return shipping? That could take days or weeks. If you rely on your computer for business, that could be worth thousands. What you value in terms of cost is purely subjective, and proves nothing.

I'm pretty certain Stealthify is also using completely subjective numbers. Thus why I did as well.

I'll bite on your business example, though. If you use your PC for business, I would hope you have a backup just like anything else that's considered mission critical. Example: I did have to RMA a video card that had a noisey choke (wasn't anything wrong with the card, just annoyed the hell out of me). I pulled the card out of my pc and slapped a backup into my computer that cost me nothing (old one that the new card replaced). My PC was "down" for about 3 minutes for the swap, which means from a business stand point, I would have lost nothing.

Anyway. From the poll stats, there are 48 items from Apple being used by those who voted. Considering there are 57 votes total, that at least shows that Apple is popular, no matter what some people choose to think. As far as price goes, PCs generally give you more bang for the buck than Apple (at least in my experience.) But, there are PLENTY of times where PC's are more expensive also. (You want to compare Apple to a PC company, compare them to Sony. Sony overprices their computer crap all the time.) Just as with Apple, you are paying a bit more for the name.

And that is quite bias as well since the poll allowed for multiple choice. Is shows that the 20 people out of 58 that own apple products own multiple products, and 38 out of the 58 don't own anything apple.

I'll also give you that Sony is expensive. Glad I haven't bought anything Sony branded in almost a decade with no intentions of lining their pockets any time soon. The only Sony products I still use are my PS2 for DVD's and a pair of headphones I bought almost 15 years ago.

As far as phones go, Apple hit a fucking home run with the iPhone, and anyone who says different is either an Apple hater, has their head in the sand, has never used one, or is completely oblivious to the fact that every company out there manufacturing phones is doing so now with the intent to "make a better iPhone."

Completely agree that everyone is following Apples example here. Will also say that I do not own a smartphone and have no intention of getting one. I use my phone to make phone calls and text. At work I use it for playing mp3's. I don't need a fancy new phone for that.

iPod? Revolutionary. Are there other options out there that are better? Yep, but the iPod pretty much started the entire handheld music craze, and even I, who went with a competing brand, with what I feel was a better product, give Apple credit where it is due. If it wasn't for Apple coming up with the iPod, Sandisk would probably have never made their mp3 players, and we all know Microsoft sure as hell wouldn't have.

Might want to read up on history there. The Diamond Rio was the first commercially successful mp3 player and was out 3 years before the iPod and the iPod met with lukewarm reception when it was released. It wasn't even known outside of Apple fans until the 2nd generation that was Windows compatible. It wasn't until iTunes was released that the iPod saw success (which no one can deny was staggering once they two took off together).

[J-Groove]

So... lets say processor power is the major player in home and office computers.( It is.. given the amount of ram and harddrive speeds are equal in our comparison). With the IMac your buying a 2.5ghz processor. With the Asus your getting a 3.2ghz processor. Maybe your not really a computer guy so I'll assume that you don't understand that this is a considerable difference. Apple must have realized it, because if you click on the IMac right next to the base IMac you selected you will get a computer with a 2.8Ghz processor(has to be manually selected) and almost identical specs (1TB harddrive vs 500Gig, better videocard which is pretty mute for a home computer). So... yes. If you don't mind paying 650 dollars more for a similar computer(Still not up to the same power as the Asus, and I would still take the Asus's 3.2Ghz processor over the better graphics card in the Apple, but close enough for the average user I guess).

650 might not be a considerable amount to you, but I wouldn't call them anywhere near close. That price is before the 170 dollar protection plan. Without that you pay obscene amount for replacement parts.

Here is your Apple 1TB harddrive: - $300 (These drives are just your average POS Seagate drives relabeled with pretty Apple logos)
1TB SATA Hard Disk Drive Kit for Mac Pro - Apple Store (U.S.)

Here is a highend 1TB for us normal folks: - $90
Newegg.com - Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

That is anything but "pretty damn close"

Wow, you really need to look at the debate before typing.

1: Trust me, I know computers, I build myself home PCs because they are very affordable. I build Macs at work because that is what I get paid to use.

2: Sorry but this is pretty darn close. Again, I included Asus because they are the best bang for the buck out there. That is why I have a Asus netbook for tuning and not some other brand because it was literally half the cost.

But all that including Asus did was prove the point further. Look at the HP and the Dell prices compared to the Apple. Again I didn't click on the non Base iMac because I was using the BASE iMac as the standpoint and building other popular brand name computers as a stand point. Again, you can ALWAYS build a computer for less. Sorry for me for using MSRP for the manufactures as a standard.

If we are allowed to go for personal builds such as the links you posted from newegg for real life builds from budget minded shopping here is my work iMac.

Apple iMac
Processor: Intel Core i7 Quad-Core 2.93GHz
RAM: 16 GB DDR3
OS: OSX Snow Leopard 64 bit
Screen: 27" 2560 X 1440
1 TB internal
Logitech Performance MX

Total spent including my $100 mouse $1,839.17 and this was back in early 2010 when the i7 processors were first released for the iMac.

You can still budget shop and piece together a build using Apple refurb and Newegg. I do it at work for my department, but my comparisons were MSRP to MSRP for an all in one computer. Not a home build.

Home builds were never a question, you can ALWAYS build a PC for less.

-John

Edit: Also, where did you get the $650 from, MSRP to MSRP is $149.01 between the Asus and iMac.

[Zaroth]

Wow, you really need to look at the debate before typing.

1: Trust me, I know computers, I build myself home PCs because they are very affordable. I build Macs at work because that is what I get paid to use.

2: Sorry but this is pretty darn close. Again, I included Asus because they are the best bang for the buck out there. That is why I have a Asus netbook for tuning and not some other brand because it was literally half the cost.

But all that including Asus did was prove the point further. Look at the HP and the Dell prices compared to the Apple. Again I didn't click on the non Base iMac because I was using the BASE iMac as the standpoint and building other popular brand name computers as a stand point. Again, you can ALWAYS build a computer for less. Sorry for me for using MSRP for the manufactures as a standard.

If we are allowed to go for personal builds such as the links you posted from newegg for real life builds from budget minded shopping here is my work iMac.

Apple iMac
Processor: Intel Core i7 Quad-Core 2.93GHz
RAM: 16 GB DDR3
OS: OSX Snow Leopard 64 bit
Screen: 27" 2560 X 1440
1 TB internal
Logitech Performance MX

Total spent including my $100 mouse $1,839.17 and this was back in early 2010 when the i7 processors were first released for the iMac.

You can still budget shop and piece together a build using Apple refurb and Newegg. I do it at work for my department, but my comparisons were MSRP to MSRP for an all in one computer. Not a home build.

Home builds were never a question, you can ALWAYS build a PC for less.

-John

Edit: Also, where did you get the $650 from, MSRP to MSRP is $149.01 between the Asus and iMac.

Lol. Apparently you didn't understand my post at all. There were no "personal builds".

You picked the base iMac and posted a non comparable ASUS computer(I didn't bother with the other brands because I really don't care enough). I upgraded the processor of the iMac to make it more comparable in the example( a 2.5ghz computer vs a 3.2ghz computer is NOT comparable). If you build computers you would understand the difference in computing power between the two. When the iMac's hardware is comparible to the ASUS YOU provided the cost difference between the two is no where near the same.

I also brought up that on top of that, you don't get a support plan and have to pay digusting amounts for repairs that are leaps and bounds more than even BestBuy would rape you for.

There was no "building a computer to make it less". I took the ASUS YOU provided and I made 1 upgrade to the iMac to make the example more comparible, because apparently you can put a computer together, but you obviously don't understand the hardware your building.

My point being that the comparisons you made were not equal. Hell... look at the HP and Dell computers. With that same processor that sets the iMac at 1700 they are both hundreds of dollars cheaper and they probably even come with support plans.

Sure you can buy a 1000 Apple. A 1000 ASUS will stomp it every day of the week, because of inferior hardware.


Edit: the 650 was the MSRP ASUS vs the 2nd iMac on the Apple website with the 2.8ghz processor. 1,050 vs 1,700.

[J-Groove]

Lol. Apparently you didn't understand my post at all. There were no "personal builds".

Quoting a bare bones HD from New Egg is basis for a personal build. You're putting it together, not buying it out right from the manufacturer.

You picked the base iMac and posted a non comparable ASUS computer(I didn't bother with the other brands because I really don't care enough). I upgraded the processor of the iMac to make it more comparable in the example( a 2.5ghz computer vs a 3.2ghz computer is NOT comparable). If you build computers you would understand the difference in computing power between the two. When the iMac's hardware is comparible to the ASUS YOU provided the cost difference between the two is no where near the same.

No, the ASUS is just that good of a deal. I was picking the closest thing I could get to the base iMac. Again, the base iMac was the benchmark. When doing a comparison the benchmark is the non variable.

The Asus is an amazing deal. Also, Asus is not an industry standard. They are always a great deal.

You need to look at the other brands because they are part of the industry standard.

I also brought up that on top of that, you don't get a support plan and have to pay digusting amounts for repairs that are leaps and bounds more than even BestBuy would rape you for.

Apple comes with a standard year of service included, or at least have with every purchase I have made with them.

There was no "building a computer to make it less". I took the ASUS YOU provided and I made 1 upgrade to the iMac to make the example more comparible, because apparently you can put a computer together, but you obviously don't understand the hardware your building.

Again, the base iMac was the BENCHMARK, Asus is a great bang for your buck. That was why I included it.

Sure you can buy a 1000 Apple. A 1000 ASUS will stomp it every day of the week, because of inferior hardware.

Because of the inferior hardware? Do you get this riled up over people who shop at Tom Thumb instead of Walmart?

I priced my work iMac at the time with our Dell corporate account and built similar machines, my iMac came in at $300 less exspensive.

Again, I could have built a whole PC from New Egg for far less than either of them. But that was not an option.

Edit: the 650 was the MSRP ASUS vs the 2nd iMac on the Apple website with the 2.8ghz processor. 1,050 vs 1,700.

Well crap, good point there.

-John