**** Major Issue with the 3sx Adjustable Cam Gears - Zero is not Zero****

[Alan92RTTT]

I get what you are saying Mark, I'm just saying a heads up message before posting would have been nice.

[green-lantern]

I had the original 3Sx fidanza gears and they were marked backwards, so it seems there are little issues with all of the iterations of this aftermarket product no matter who is making them. As an engineer, I can only hope that when they have a product R&D'd they have someone in-house that checks the proto-type and gives the ok on production after testing/measuring etc.. i never heard of issues with the unorthodox wheels though....

Thanks

Now that you mention that I think mine are also. Luckily my buddy Justin was there and noticed they were set the wrong way so we fixed it before I dropped the engine in.

[J. Fast]

Eric,

Were the results of before and after cam gear install on 3sx website from setting the cam's out of the box to 0,0 and then +1,-3 using gear only, or were they properly degree'd? What were the actual before and after cam hashmark settings for 3sx's test results advertised on their website?

[Ninja Performance]

Just FYI to help people whom have purchased them and help 3sx with the most information they can get to help their customers:

As noted earlier I thought I had a set on the engine Greg picked up for me months ago. I was finally able to get into the garage this morning and check it out.

As for the last picture in Eric's post, yes, you can mount the inner of the 3SX rear ex cam gear into a stock rear exh gear. That isn't an issue. But if you attach a complete 3sx rear exh gear set at 0 onto a stock rear exh gear using the 4 timing blade holes (i had long enough bolts to do so) I came to the same issue Greg did, the outer teeth do not line up, they are 2.5 degrees off.

Then I took a stock gear and put in on the engine with valve covers and set it to on time, putting on the 3sx gear set at 0 it was off time by 2.5 degrees. I checked this by putting the 3sx gear on the engine with the bolts on loose. when it was found to be out of time I carefully turned the outer cog until the timing dot matched with the valve cover arrow, then I locked down the two parts with the bolts and pulled the gear off. The set to 0 in time on the engine showed on the 3sx gear as 2.5 degrees advanced.

I tested all 4 3sx gears, it is not just the rear exh timing blade gear, all 4 of them are 2.5 degrees off. This is not a full tooth, it is closer to 1/2 tooth.

Eric, if you need any kind of pictures, video or whatever just let me know. Hopefully this info will help customers get theirs set right. In a perfect world yes, everyone would use a timing wheel and all that, but that requires pulling the engine. Most people most likely just set it at +1 -3 and install and go.

What sux is I have the fidanzas on my car, set at +1 -3 and bolted down so they can't move. Now I got to pull those off and check to see if they are all off

-Chris

[J. Fast]

Just FYI to help people whom have purchased them and help 3sx with the most information they can get to help their customers:

As noted earlier I thought I had a set on the engine Greg picked up for me months ago. I was finally able to get into the garage this morning and check it out.

As for the last picture in Eric's post, yes, you can mount the inner of the 3SX rear ex cam gear into a stock rear exh gear. That isn't an issue. But if you attach a complete 3sx rear exh gear set at 0 onto a stock rear exh gear using the 4 timing blade holes (i had long enough bolts to do so) I came to the same issue Greg did, the outer teeth do not line up, they are 2.5 degrees off.

Then I took a stock gear and put in on the engine with valve covers and set it to on time, putting on the 3sx gear set at 0 it was off time by 2.5 degrees. I checked this by putting the 3sx gear on the engine with the bolts on loose. when it was found to be out of time I carefully turned the outer cog until the timing dot matched with the valve cover arrow, then I locked down the two parts with the bolts and pulled the gear off. The set to 0 in time on the engine showed on the 3sx gear as 2.5 degrees advanced.

I tested all 4 3sx gears, it is not just the rear exh timing blade gear, all 4 of them are 2.5 degrees off. This is not a full tooth, it is closer to 1/2 tooth.

Eric, if you need any kind of pictures, video or whatever just let me know. Hopefully this info will help customers get theirs set right. In a perfect world yes, everyone would use a timing wheel and all that, but that requires pulling the engine. Most people most likely just set it at +1 -3 and install and go.

What sux is I have the fidanzas on my car, set at +1 -3 and bolted down so they can't move. Now I got to pull those off and check to see if they are all off

-Chris

Chris, or someone with a degree wheel, can you confirm Greg's timing for actual overlap settings of +1, -3 with the engine you have available?

Should the settings infact be -.5 and +3.5 to achieve an actual +1,-3? Thanks!

[Ninja Performance]

Since most people do not have a degree wheel nor are they going to pull their engine to use a degree wheel to install cam gears here is a quick how to get them close enough. First check the adjustable (whatever brand) against a stock cam gear to validate how far off it is.

1. Put on OEM cam gear and turn cam so the timing mark on stock cam gear is on time (arrow on valve cover)
2. Carefully take off OEM cam gear and carefully put on aftermarket adjustable gear with the locking bolts loose.
3. If the timing mark on the aftermarket gear does not line up with the valve cover arrow, Carefully turn the outer cog (DO NOT allow the center cog to turn or allow it to turn the cam).
4. Carefully tighten the locking bolts (2 will be enough to lock it down for now)
5. Remove aftermarket cam gear and look at the degree scale to see how far off it is.
6. If it is at 0 (you didn't move the outer cog) then it's good to go.
7. If it is on any other spot then 0, that is how far it is off either retard or advanced. Where it is set now is tru 0 and you will have to add +1 advance for intake or subtract -3 retard for exhaust.

These numbers are for the known issue which is +2.5 degrees advance built into the adjustable when set at 0.

Adjusting the cam gears that are +2.5 when at 0 would mean that if you set the gear to:
+1 they would be actually timing +3.5
-3 they would actually timing -.5

So "IN THEORY" you would have to set the +2.5 cam to
-1.5 to be at actual timing +1
and
-5.5 to be at actual timing -3

They have an actual 2.5 degrees advance built into them when set to 0

-Chris

[DrGonzo]

Thanks for the info Chris. Been out working on my other engine so I wasn't able to get back to this thread.

[Tigchamp]

I think it is prety sad when a company like 3SX (I have spent thousands with them) cant be bothered to find bolts that are long enough to test the findings properly, when I expect most diy-ers probably could find them in their garrage.
It is all very well to say that if you have adjustable gears you should use a degree wheel to set them up, I agree. But 3SX refused to give me the specs for their 264/272 cams that I used on my rebuild, telling me to just instal them as stock which at the time I thought was not very helpful.
Anyone who is familiar with my build thread will know that 3SX accidentaly sent me two rear inlet cams which took a lot of wasted time for me to find out, this was resolved by them (many thanks) but during the process I found that the picture they show of the dowels on aftermarket cams was incorect this I pointed out in my build thread and an e-mail to them. Sadly this picture on their website is unchanged.
Jeff

[gs1000kat]

I've been looking at getting a set of these, but I'll be using them with aftermarket cams. Am I correct that I would need to degree them in anyway, so this wouldn't matter too much anyway?

[TurboSinceBirth]

I've been looking at getting a set of these, but I'll be using them with aftermarket cams. Am I correct that I would need to degree them in anyway, so this wouldn't matter too much anyway?

As long as your cams weren't far enough off that added to the 2.5 degrees they were off you ran out of tick marks on the cam gears. You could always mark them yourself. Unless you get BC cams you shouldn't have a problem with them being off 6-7 degrees like I've seen with those.