Good luck to Blue Velocity at NASA TTU @ High Plains Raceway this weekend!

[i3igpete]

Nah, no need to. I'm going to do the side mount. I've seen it work.

I definitely want to see this! not because i'm gonna copy it, but i'm curious as hell.

[Erron Spalsbury]

Oil cooler is on the side.

I just found out something fun today, stock mitsu temp probes, ya, they only go to 186 degrees. At 190, they are zero ohm. Swapping it now to a real sender for more testing.

[Stealth_RT]

Oil cooler is on the side.

I just found out something fun today, stock mitsu temp probes, ya, they only go to 186 degrees. At 190, they are zero ohm. Swapping it now to a real sender for more testing.

Interesting. Wonder how MMCD logger was giving me coolant temps upwards of 240 deg. at times. Which temp probe, the ECU sensor, the stock gauge sensor, or the A/C sensor? Already going to replace the guage sensor with an AEM water temp gauge.

[Erron Spalsbury]

The one on the thermostat housing, if standing on the passenger side looking at the motor. The one on the far left has a white connector, that's the AC, then the one in the middle, that's the one that the ECU reads and the one to the far right is one that goes to the stock gauge cluster. I was pulling the temp from the middle one. It's all better now, just plumed in one that sweeps from -20 to 400 degrees and it's calibrated. (only took it up to running temp, actual testing will come later.

[MR2]

Finally people agreeing that FMIC does not work


so what's your plan? the local guy here who does pretty much what you do is going water to air with the radiators for it mounted elsewhere in the car (aka not infront of the radiator)

[Erron Spalsbury]

I'm trying a few things. It looks like the bypass valve in the thermostat takes far too long to fully go to radiator mode.

[J. Fast]

I still am of the opinion that you're chasing your tail on the issue. You're cavitating coolant, E. Is adding another radiator going to prevent you fom still doing it? Water doesn't have to boil to start getting air bubbles and expanding. I can also do the same from turbulance from impulsewaves in the heads no and block, casting imperfections and lastly and most importantly from not having enough pressure and being too slow. I think the second radiator would cause too dramatic of a pressure drop and you will collapse the coolant and it will also bubble.

If it were myself before I did anything I'd do some engine pressure testing before proceeding. I think I might collapse all the valves in each cylinder and pressure test each combustion chamber to 160psi and see if coolant's lifting.

Coolant is just like an other fluid such as air, fuel, or oil. You get the most efficient use out of it when it stays together and travels in a uniform column with no separation, mixing, or cavitation. My guess is you're experiencing coolant separation. In order to bring back uniformity the system will require that you install a filter. The filter will seperates and isolates any turbulance that can form in the coolant system. An entrapment filter will catch the air bubbles and keep the coolant uniform.

If you notice every fluid system on my street car has a heat sink, filter, and cavitation or separation trap. One for air, fuel, oil, and coolant. I filter them because I know what happens when you get separation of fluid.

Going back to this more capacity thing. It will absolutely work. Increasing surface area will help, as would increasing airflow. Any combination of the two will help. However, if you're still going to "eventually" get hot or your slowing the coolant way down because of two stage cooling you'll have to filter the fluid or its going to get air bubbles.

So you can add more weight and piping, another remote radiator, and build a coolant bubble filter and separation reservior. Or, you could just move what you have around and increase the airflow. You have 12" of nose left on the car to move some stuff forward. Take a look at all the cutaways at the PRM roadrace car in the front, open the bumper and put some vents in there and duct to the radiator or move the ic and the radiator and mount them somewhere else.

And quit tap dancing around the issues. Discuss them openly with 3STech's so they can be addressed and all perspectives and advice can be given and good solutions to problems can be achieved by group brainstorming.

If I wasn't there and didn't know you al I would've interpreted is, "there was a race, and it was awesome". You left out a lot of details, share. There are things that can be improved upon and issues that keep resurfacing over and over, open up the discussion and get some 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions, and etc... that's how you fix stuff.

[Erron Spalsbury]

I still am of the opinion that you're chasing your tail on the issue. You're cavitating coolant, E.

Negative. If I were, it would do it on the first pull on the dyno or in past years of racing. I truly do believe it's not cavitating.

Is adding another radiator going to prevent you fom still doing it? Water doesn't have to boil to start getting air bubbles and expanding. I can also do the same from turbulance from impulsewaves in the heads no and block, casting imperfections and lastly and most importantly from not having enough pressure and being too slow. I think the second radiator would cause too dramatic of a pressure drop and you will collapse the coolant and it will also bubble.

Oh hell no. If that were the case the 6 gallon Nascar systems would also have this issue. You can't over cool from my research.

If it were myself before I did anything I'd do some engine pressure testing before proceeding. I think I might collapse all the valves in each cylinder and pressure test each combustion chamber to 160psi and see if coolant's lifting.

Which is like a 1/100th of actual combustion and would do nothing... Dude, the head is not flexing at this power level. The -PROPER- test is a combustion gas tester for the coolant, there is none in mine. ($29.95 at Napa)

Coolant is just like an other fluid such as air, fuel, or oil. You get the most efficient use out of it when it stays together and travels in a uniform column with no separation, mixing, or cavitation. My guess is you're experiencing coolant separation. In order to bring back uniformity the system will require that you install a filter. The filter will seperates and isolates any turbulance that can form in the coolant system. An entrapment filter will catch the air bubbles and keep the coolant uniform.

It's not a filter, it's a swirl pot or accumulator that removes air. Which filter are you talking about?

If you notice every fluid system on my street car has a heat sink, filter, and cavitation or separation trap. One for air, fuel, oil, and coolant. I filter them because I know what happens when you get separation of fluid.

What are you talking about? I know you have the heat sink on the fuel line, but there is no swirl pot or surge tank? Or on the oil, or the coolant? Huh?

Going back to this more capacity thing. It will absolutely work. Increasing surface area will help, as would increasing airflow. Any combination of the two will help. However, if you're still going to "eventually" get hot or your slowing the coolant way down because of two stage cooling you'll have to filter the fluid or its going to get air bubbles.

So you can add more weight and piping, another remote radiator, and build a coolant bubble filter and separation reservior. Or, you could just move what you have around and increase the airflow. You have 12" of nose left on the car to move some stuff forward. Take a look at all the cutaways at the PRM roadrace car in the front, open the bumper and put some vents in there and duct to the radiator or move the ic and the radiator and mount them somewhere else.

Not gonna happen.

And quit tap dancing around the issues. Discuss them openly with 3STech's so they can be addressed and all perspectives and advice can be given and good solutions to problems can be achieved by group brainstorming.

Uh, dude.

If I wasn't there and didn't know you al I would've interpreted is, "there was a race, and it was awesome". You left out a lot of details, share. There are things that can be improved upon and issues that keep resurfacing over and over, open up the discussion and get some 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions, and etc... that's how you fix stuff.

Actually, things get fixed by testing, not talking about it on an internet forum. It's fun to theorize and take educated guesses though. I'll go ahead and mention what I think is happening at this point from some testing I did yesterday. The cooling system -may- be working like it is supposed to. The t-stat just isn't reacting quick enough or at a really high temperature. The bypass valve on the t-stat (return block off) doesn't fully close until just over 200. By that point the system -may- have gone into a sue-do thermal runaway and now can't cool the mixture quick enough. So, instead of having the system try to cool an already overheated fluid (which it can't do in an off/on/off scenario) I'm going to try the system in a locked down mode. T-stat always open, block off always blocked off. Will it work? I will find out.

[J. Fast]

Hood...

You're generating turbulance in you're coolant system, E. Any engineer couls tell you that by simple observation. Observe radiator hoses. Those acordians look pretty disruptive and turbulant to me. Turbulant flow right behind an air-gap, the hole to your coolant overflow tank. The coolant system is probably taking gulps of air. I'm thinking if I was in your position I might install a coolanta separator or a filtered air bubble expansion tank to separate the air gap and separation being from turbulance.

Doesn't PRM run one on their racecar? I remember seeing a pic of one a long time ago. What's Ralliart's setup? I bet they have a coolant air trap in there. Their car's a real hour+ enduro. I would bet money they have one so their coolant stays uniform and doesn't separate and develop turbulance bubbles.

I'm trying to help you E, and a have discussion. Gotta put that ego away my friend.

[Boost4VR4]

Those rad hoses are smooth inside, those look like rad hose sleeves that go over the stock hoses to prevent the hose from flexing under hot conditions. I think the sidemount idea will work just fine. Putting the rad in front of the FMIC won't cool the intake charge down enough. Are you running meth injection to cool the intake charge down?