RPS Twin Plate Carbon-Carbon Clutch Experiances

[J. Fast]

The setup is very easy. Use this for a guide. It's all going to be based on your clutch style and the distance from the pressure plate fingers to the bellhousing stop. http://www.tiltonracing.com/ins/98-1110.pdf

[MR2]

oooook I might look into the Erron flywheel in a few months....will give the RPS one last try after I pull it out and relub it etc

[Mitsuman03]

If rob can't answer your question, ask all the questions you can in this thread, and ill answer them for you. Ill start off by this.

The oil you got on your clutch, i wouldn't worry to much about it...ive submerged mine in oil multiple times from when my transmission had exploded. The oil will burn out of the disk's if you hot lap the clutch..(meaning ride it out). Back in the day, these clutches used to be like a button, either on or off...(much worse then what you have today), i found that with a little oil on they seemed to be easier to drive..eventually the oil would burn up.

Next, DO NOT HANG your trans off the shaft when your installing it..meaning no breaks...support it from the top, i know its a bitch, and every one seems to take breaks and kinda just let's it "hang" there tell you get your next breath....THIS WILL damage your disks, it will stress them and start to hair line fracture them. Eventually the'll come apart.

Slip the bitch....slip it the best you can when you shift..your not going to wear it out. When your daily driving, engage it as low as possible, i know its hard, i know its a cunt, but you'll get used to it.

If you race, NO DIRECT ENGAGEMENT...do not rev and drop the pedal...you will hurt your driveline. Slipping this clutch is your friend, even threw second gear if your putting down alot of power, ive smashed open my transmission from not shifting lightly into second before.

Grease your TOB when you re-install it.

Adjust your clutch pedal, you want it engaging closer to the top that way its "fully" out when you shift.....or you'll put a hurt on your syncros.

Your bell housing, please take the time to have a brace installed, its such a cheap investment, for such a great line of protection...many will argue that if your not making big power you dont need it. Thats a line of horse shit..if you slip on your clutch and drop it..the to shafts inside the transmission WILL want to "pull" away from each other...thats what cause the bell housing to crack....

[J. Fast]

The shafts that a hoop brace lock may be spinning in different directions but the axial loading and the couples are directed towards the endcover. I'm not sue who said they were trying to pull apart but helical gears mesh patterns are designed to pull the gears together. On another note, the destruction on our transmissions comes from proven vibration studies published by Mitsubishi and Mazda Motor Corporations in a 2007 Journal of Advanced Mechanical Engineers publication called "Vibration Analysis of Helical Gears....". The things people have said about bracing and etc is pure myth. It's all about tooth engagement, backlash, axial loading on the end bearings, and fluid. The gears in our transmissions have a natural vibration that's transferred to the shafts. There are three types of excitiations, the first is called displacement, the second is called parametric, and the last is a moving load on the end bearings. The only way to make sure they don't blow from big power is to manage the helical gear excitation by preloading the gears correctly and to keep the end bearings from compressing or moving.

[CoopKill]

The shafts that a hoop brace lock may be spinning in different directions but the axial loading and the couples are directed towards the endcover. I'm not sue who said they were trying to pull apart but helical gears mesh patterns are designed to pull the gears together. On another note, the destruction on our transmissions comes from proven vibration studies published by Mitsubishi and Mazda Motor Corporations in a 2007 Journal of Advanced Mechanical Engineers publication called "Vibration Analysis of Helical Gears....". The things people have said about bracing and etc is pure myth. It's all about tooth engagement, backlash, axial loading on the end bearings, and fluid. The gears in our transmissions have a natural vibration that's transferred to the shafts. There are three types of excitiations, the first is called displacement, the second is called parametric, and the last is a moving load on the end bearings. The only way to make sure they don't blow from big power is to manage the helical gear excitation by preloading the gears correctly and to keep the end bearings from compressing or moving.

So you are saying the bell housing brace is unnecessary?

[J. Fast]

It's only necessary when you utilize a clutchfork engagement design.

The stock clutchfork and slave setup should be avoided when you switch to a twin disc because the clutch fork pivot point and lever (clutchfork) for our cars are fixed positon.

The geometry is not designed for the distance and leverage required to uniformly depress twin disc pressure plate fingers which is typically why a large number of people don't have consistent successive shifts and have engagement problems.

[MR2]

I have the bell housing brace and the end plate, would not be upgrading the clutch without them!

Pulled the clutch and re-lubed the shafts...will see how we go this time.

[Mitsuman03]

The shafts that a hoop brace lock may be spinning in different directions but the axial loading and the couples are directed towards the endcover. I'm not sue who said they were trying to pull apart but helical gears mesh patterns are designed to pull the gears together. On another note, the destruction on our transmissions comes from proven vibration studies published by Mitsubishi and Mazda Motor Corporations in a 2007 Journal of Advanced Mechanical Engineers publication called "Vibration Analysis of Helical Gears....". The things people have said about bracing and etc is pure myth. It's all about tooth engagement, backlash, axial loading on the end bearings, and fluid. The gears in our transmissions have a natural vibration that's transferred to the shafts. There are three types of excitiations, the first is called displacement, the second is called parametric, and the last is a moving load on the end bearings. The only way to make sure they don't blow from big power is to manage the helical gear excitation by preloading the gears correctly and to keep the end bearings from compressing or moving.

Thats great that some engineers decided to rediscover there faults 20 years after designing a cast aluminum transmission. What you forgot to mention, and what they did not evaluate is that these transmission had no intentions to put down and handle as much power as some do today, and like any other metal that's abused over and over again after a period of long time, they weaken. For there time, they where slightly over engineered part, and where strengthened to the best of there ability..(hence the 3 ribs that seem to "strengthen" the walls of the bell housing.....hmm.wonder why they put those there? When you have a force of uncommon strength being applied at such a speed, when the gears mesh together in abrupt force, the unit as a whole will flex, causing them to push apart from each other and "mis aligning' the teeth...well..if there's no room for these errors being that the tolerance is oh so tight, i guess the only way is in the "away" direction..causing them to push apart.....well..guess what there going to push into?

Also, if you COULD preload these gears...COULD YOU IMAGINE the destruction that would be caused it a high speed, when the "pre load" is unnecessary? There wouldn't be a fluid in the world that could keep them from burning up. Don't believe everything you read, until you can apply to the reality of physics being questioned.

So you are saying the bell housing brace is unnecessary?

Its been proven for years that it has saved many transmission...he can do w/e he wants to his car, if your balling and can replace transmissions left to right...hey can believe its a myth.

It's only necessary when you utilize a clutchfork engagement design.

The stock clutchfork and slave setup should be avoided when you switch to a twin disc because the clutch fork pivot point and lever (clutchfork) for our cars are fixed positon.

The geometry is not designed for the distance and leverage required to uniformly depress twin disc pressure plate fingers which is typically why a large number of people don't have consistent successive shifts and have engagement problems.

O man..the clutch fork theory, really..again 10 years down the road? Ya, this has been looked into, just not discussed often enough b/c it wasn't sought out to be a major problem..and it really isn't..nor is it the cause of the reason as to why the transmission crack. . Yes, is not an "exact" science, but its effective. The clutch fork does sit on a pivot ball, (that many tend to forget to grease), yet its design may not be perfect for the application after molding, but it does distribute an almost balanced force. The TOB does sit on two pivot clips on the fork, when the slave cylinder press and push's the fork, the fork then pivots on the ball, pushing in, as it equally pulls up from the center of the TOB. Its not shift issues or engagement problems caused by this, that's strictly related to the pressure and the pedal's travel. In order to utilize a twin disk you have to have it pull the full distance, hence why i mentioned to adjust the pedal to catch as close to the top as possible. That will give you full travel. To over compensate this, eliminating all the rubber/plastic components in the shifting system's help to tighten up the looseness, also securing the cables properlly..

I have the bell housing brace and the end plate, would not be upgrading the clutch without them!

Pulled the clutch and re-lubed the shafts...will see how we go this time.

Your smart for doing the bracing.....

[MR2]

Your smart for doing the bracing.....

I'm just not rich...I can't afford a new GB Cheaper to install the plates and endcase than to blow up expensive diffs!

Gotta figure out how to get the gb up tonight...hate that part getting it to NOT fall off my jack is always a challange.

[Mitsuman03]

I'm just not rich...I can't afford a new GB Cheaper to install the plates and endcase than to blow up expensive diffs!

Gotta figure out how to get the gb up tonight...hate that part getting it to NOT fall off my jack is always a challange.

Engine hoist and ratchet straps..slide the trans under the car 1st, then attach the ratchet straps around it, lift with hoist...easy as cake..a