What the hell am I doing wrong!!! Chrome Tuning

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Why do you say that?

and no closed loop is not disabled.

I'm curious how you are going to maintain closed loop at afr's other than stoic?

[RealMcCoy]

I'm curious how you are going to maintain closed loop at afr's other than stoic?

Change the target AFR...

That's what I was trying to clarify he was doing, because if he was using the factory target, and getting a lean reading on the wideband, Jim's concerns would be valid.

[Greg E]

You can change the target AFRs in the fuel table but your narrowbands are only calibrated for 14.7 so all you're doing is making closed loop trim you back to 14.7. Unless you tune beyond the trim range or disable closed loop entirely.

FWIW, you can actually get the car to run smoother with closed loop disabled.

[DrGonzo]

I have always had my 3S running at about 15-16 afr at dead stop idle. Even a local friends running a stock car just adding in an AEM WB runs at about 15.5 AFR stock at idle.

If the car was trying to pull the AFR back to 14.7, then why is my low trim siting perfect within the 5% range at 16 afr? My WB is an Innovate wired right into the ECU. I do not have a display for for it in the car "BSLCD is having issues right now" and I free air calibrate it before every tuning session. So unless the conversion used in EVOscan is wrong then the AFR is correct and that is what the ECU wants it to be at....

WB02 sensor is located in the collector of my downpipe and I don't have any leaks. Doubt that the distance between the NB and WB would throw it off that much.

[DrGonzo]

I'm running an Innovate LC1

Here is what I have set in Chrome for the WB scaling

0.00 - 7.4
1.00 - 10.4
2.00 - 13.4
3.00 - 16.4
4.00 - 19.4
5.00 - 22.4

Evoscan is set to - x*0.0627+7

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

You start a thread asking what the hell you are doing wrong and then proceed to argue about how closed loop works.



No offense meant, but it is no wonder your scalings don't make sense.

[DrGonzo]

Umm... I'm not arguing how closed loop works. I'm stating what the data right in front of me is showing. I see that the AFR table is set to run at 14.7 AFR at *rpm, but seeing that I am running at 16 AFR and my trims are in range, WHY?

if I richen it up to try to get the target 14.7 AFR at Idle I will be out of the 5% range on the trims. So my only assumption can be that either the WB logging is not working properly and I am in the target AFR range, or at idle the ECU doesn't care about what the target AFR is since the trims look fine.

I started this thread looking for advice to get the car tuned, but if the advice given contradicts the data I have right in front of me then I will argue it until it is clarified. There is too much bad information floating around for me to just take someones word on something without them backing it up with data. Just saying "hey you should do this" means nothing anymore. You need to be explicit and back up your statements with facts and data. This isn't the Facebook group...

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Umm... I'm not arguing how closed loop works. I'm stating what the data right in front of me is showing. I see that the AFR table is set to run at 14.7 AFR at *rpm, but seeing that I am running at 16 AFR and my trims are in range, WHY?

if I richen it up to try to get the target 14.7 AFR at Idle I will be out of the 5% range on the trims. So my only assumption can be that either the WB logging is not working properly and I am in the target AFR range, or at idle the ECU doesn't care about what the target AFR is since the trims look fine.

I started this thread looking for advice to get the car tuned, but if the advice given contradicts the data I have right in front of me then I will argue it until it is clarified. There is too much bad information floating around for me to just take someones word on something without them backing it up with data. Just saying "hey you should do this" means nothing anymore. You need to be explicit and back up your statements with facts and data. This isn't the Facebook group...

1)Without having a crystal ball that looks into your garage I have no way of knowing why you are seeing this. Either your instrumentation is wrong, something mechanical is going wrong, or something else unknown. Small misfires, uneven banks, vacuum leaks, intake pipe changes, a lot can add up to issues. The car may seem to run and drive ok, you may not even choose to fix it, but it is not normal.

2)The stock ecu will target stoic whenever it is in the airflow range of the given closed loop settings. The narrowbands are used to detect switching between lean and rich of stoic, they aren't not used to see a specific afr really. It is how a narrowband type o2 sensor works.

3)What afr stoic actually shows is depending on some factors, including the fuel you use. Most fuel is 10% ethanol and most cars will actually idle around 14.3 to 14.5:1 in closed loop.

4)The fuel map is not actually an "afr map". It is a somewhat happy co-incidence it works out roughly this way. Setting 16:1 in an idle cell will not make the ecu believe it should run that afr, it will just reduce fueling 8% (14.7/16 = .918) It doesn't tell the ecu where to run closed loop, that is in the 3 row table for the hz range.

[RealMcCoy]

If the ECU is targeting 14.7 (I've never seen one target leaner than about 15.2 on anything factory) and the fuel trims are happy, the most likely scenario is that it is actually running real close to that and your wideband is wrong...

There are things that can effect the O2 readings and skew them one way or another, but I'd put my money on instrumentation error...

[Jimvr4]

Yes, this is why I suggested to check the wideband calibration.

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