Turbo/Efficiency Discussion

[futurevr4man]

800hp is my horsepower goal. I just want to run a 9.999999999999 and I think it will take me 800 to get there.

[flewis763]

800hp is my horsepower goal. I just want to run a 9.999999999999 and I think it will take me 800 to get there.

you can get there on twin 20gs no problem. I was actually going to run that myself until I came up with a different idea and am building the largest td04's anyone has very built. hopefully I can get them to stay together.

[CoopKill]

Interested in that largest td04 idea. It has been taken to its limits with the small shaft, but would love to see what you have in mind!

[familyMAN]

800whp will take a very efficient setup (big cams, intake mani, zero back pressure exhaust, high flow intercooler piping, ethanol, etc.) and crank them up like a dsm owner. A 6g7X doesn't get the same hp per lb/min of turbo as a 4g63 does. 700-750awhp is more reasonable.

My math....47 lb/min (20g) x 10awhp for a 4g63. x 2 for twins. But 6gs usually get only around 75-80%. So at 75% is 705awhp. (Check it against the typical 650-670awhp evo3, or 50 trims or 68hta. It's usually in the ballpark)

[flewis763]

800whp will take a very efficient setup (big cams, intake mani, zero back pressure exhaust, high flow intercooler piping, ethanol, etc.) and crank them up like a dsm owner. A 6g7X doesn't get the same hp per lb/min of turbo as a 4g63 does. 700-750awhp is more reasonable.

My math....47 lb/min (20g) x 10awhp for a 4g63. x 2 for twins. But 6gs usually get only around 75-80%. So at 75% is 705awhp. (Check it against the typical 650-670awhp evo3, or 50 trims or 68hta. It's usually in the ballpark)

ya you would need cams, heads ported, e85 forsure and high boost to do it but I think it could be done easier than you think.

as for the largest td04. not breaking the shaft is my only concern but we will be doing as much balancing as possible to get them perfect. the wheels I have a 50mm/61mm extended tip to 64mm. clipped hl turbine, lots of porting, tdo4h anti surge comp covers. ive been so busy I haven't got them done yet but then again my build is aways out from being even close to done.

picture is it next to a 16g

[sergechronos]

Tell that to Nomiez, I can pretty well assure you even with the list of what you think it takes, he is probably 650-675. If all it took was cams, heads and e85, everyone could do it.

Its takes a LOT of airflow to make 800, I'd say the number of people who have actually done it are probably in the double digits still.

[familyMAN]

ya you would need cams, heads ported, e85 forsure and high boost to do it but I think it could be done easier than you think.

It won't be "easier than I think." It's not impossible but not easy. Look at the simple formula I posted which is based on every single td05 based 3S dyno posted. The guys making 650+ out of evo3s have all of the above mods also (cams, heads, some with intake manis, etc). At this point, only one guy, ever, has made over 700 with evo3s (stock cams but warmed over heads with upgraded valves AND E95), even though plenty have tried and tried very hard (including wiring wastegates shut.)

Each Evo3 is only missing a few lb/min over 20gs. 700 should be "easy" but real world says otherwise. (Still an awesome turbo though!)

I'm just providing info based off the results of plenty of td05 experience on the 3S forums and nearly all out efforts including Jrink that was mentioned here several times. Built 3.5l, heads, cams, DR intake mani, Q45 TB, etc, etc. 688awhp on race gas with Meth. Same car, 740awhp with 68htas.

20gs, 800awhp...where's the "easy button" that many have missed with a decade of searching? If you find it and press it, it will be impactful.

[NOMIEZVR4]

From a turbo v turbo standpoint, I did talk with Justin on DSM tuners about turbo upgrades beyond 14Bs (on a 3.0l anyhow) and asked about a billet E3 set up, he said the E3 blades are already pretty thin with a small hub and hard to improve upon so billet may not add anything beyond cost. The FP 68HTA is just a billet 18G with extended tips., although popular with DSM and Evo guys, JRink didn't get much from them vs E3s until cranking them past 30psi (same may be said of the other FP offerings.)

Lots of truth there...reading this thread makes me like my 16g's even more... its a great turbo...a tad underappreciated by the 3/s crowd it seems. DSMers seem to understand its value though.

[flewis763]

Tell that to Nomiez, I can pretty well assure you even with the list of what you think it takes, he is probably 650-675. If all it took was cams, heads and e85, everyone could do it.

Its takes a LOT of airflow to make 800, I'd say the number of people who have actually done it are probably in the double digits still.

ok I would be implying the bottom end of the motor was built, not a stock block. billet 20gs have enough flow to make 450+whp at 30psi but tuning will really be the big factor. im not saying this is like an everyone can do it think but with a properly built motor, twin 20gs can make 800whp.

It won't be "easier than I think." It's not impossible but not easy. Look at the simple formula I posted which is based on every single td05 based 3S dyno posted. The guys making 650+ out of evo3s have all of the above mods also (cams, heads, some with intake manis, etc). At this point, only one guy, ever, has made over 700 with evo3s (stock cams but warmed over heads with upgraded valves AND E95), even though plenty have tried and tried very hard (including wiring wastegates shut.)

Each Evo3 is only missing a few lb/min over 20gs. 700 should be "easy" but real world says otherwise. (Still an awesome turbo though!)

I'm just providing info based off the results of plenty of td05 experience on the 3S forums and nearly all out efforts including Jrink that was mentioned here several times. Built 3.5l, heads, cams, DR intake mani, Q45 TB, etc, etc. 688awhp on race gas with Meth. Same car, 740awhp with 68htas.

20gs, 800awhp...where's the "easy button" that many have missed with a decade of searching? If you find it and press it, it will be impactful.

I find it hard to believe that only 1 guy has ever made over 700whp on evo3 16gs. hell ray did what 687 on dr750s. honestly I think I can hit 725-750whp on the turbos im building at around 30spi on e85.

[CoopKill]

Are you familiar with the Devastators MTC built?