Turbo/Efficiency Discussion

[futurevr4man]

I must have missed it, but how much power are you making now with how much boost and what kind of fuel?

Secondly, how much power are you wanting to make?

From my own testing, I gained nothing from matching my TB size to IC cold side pipe (3") along with adding a much larger intake plenum @500whp. Ive since made changes (switching to a MAFT setup) and at the power level I'm making I still don't think its justified really.

Having to pull the motor for something so miniscule would annoy the hell out of me...to the point where I would completely redo my whole setup...if it was my car of course.. The standard run of the mill evo16g's have made close to 700whp on 3.5 motors with plenty more to go without trying too hard as I'm sure youre aware..plus they can be removed in less than an hour(per turbo)

I've never had my car on a dyno. I really don't care how much power it makes, I just want decent response out of my turbos, and I want them to pull to redline. Even if that just means 600 whp, then so be it. As I said, I'm not looking to break records. And I may switch to e85 at some later point (it's not super available around here) but I am currently going to just run 93 pump. This is a street car, not a full out race car.

20gs should have a td06 turbine, especially on a bigger engine. Get a td06h4 wheel for them.

Oh and 5000 for full boost on a 3.7....... sounds like something is wrong.

I was thinking that too but figured with 20g's a bit more lag would be expected.

I guess I'll just look at suping up the 20G's. I figured there would be a turbo thats kind of a great low/mid 50's lb/min turbo with incredible response. Guess not.

Yes there are deficiencies in my setup. I admit that. I am not hiding it. I need to pull the engine to fix them though. The slow response is boost controller related more than anything, but I have other issues that I know of that will rear their head if I fix that, so...




I appreciate everyone showing concern about the build, but that's not why I made this thread. This is supposed to be about:
A) Getting the best turbo setup for my build
B) Streamlining everything to work together to maximize the efficiency

Assume the engine runs flawlessly, even though I know it doesn't. It's the only way to have a discussion like this. I know how to do the troubleshooting part.

[sergechronos]

I still maintain FP Greens are probably the closest to what you're describing as wanting.

[arm0red1]

Jrink ran fpreds and greens when he wrote his test thread showing MTC's new units and how they compared to his reds, maybe dig up some of his old threads?

As far as the 5k think goes, maybe check for exhaust leaks? Pressure test the intake one more time? I mean, even with 3.7L, thats only 1.8 L a bank feeding a bastard 20g on each side, spool wont be ridiculous, but 5k is a little on the late side.

As for the 9vs12 debate for turbines from NOMster, the switch is good for a 30whp gain. Its not hype, its flow and rotating mass sir.

Hell, easy proof (citing the dr750's ex you noted) current dr750v2 setups have piqued around the ~ 680ish whp mark without fully built engines, and have maintained spool vs the prior 11 bladed, tial turbine units piquing at 650 (like gregs setup when they first came out for example) (or rays)


Its not so much hype as that nobody runs them on this forum. I would LOVE to do a back to back comparo with someone rocking an e316g kit and then swapping them for billet e3's and said turbines.

Evo guys love them however

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Jrink ran fpreds and greens when he wrote his test thread showing MTC's new units and how they compared to his reds, maybe dig up some of his old threads?

As far as the 5k think goes, maybe check for exhaust leaks? Pressure test the intake one more time? I mean, even with 3.7L, thats only 1.8 L a bank feeding a bastard 20g on each side, spool wont be ridiculous, but 5k is a little on the late side.

As for the 9vs12 debate for turbines from NOMster, the switch is good for a 30whp gain. Its not hype, its flow and rotating mass sir.

Hell, easy proof (citing the dr750's ex you noted) current dr750v2 setups have piqued around the ~ 680ish whp mark without fully built engines, and have maintained spool vs the prior 11 bladed, tial turbine units piquing at 650 (like gregs setup when they first came out for example) (or rays)


Its not so much hype as that nobody runs them on this forum. I would LOVE to do a back to back comparo with someone rocking an e316g kit and then swapping them for billet e3's and said turbines.

Evo guys love them however

Where are you getting your information? Jrink never ran greens or reds because they are not stock td05 fitment and he didn't want to modify his manifolds, last I saw any updates.

Ray also has the DR750 record with the 11 blade TiAl turbine and he has heads and cams, like anyone making much over 600 on DR750s.

These are the TiAl 11 blade DR750s:

687whp 720wtq TD04s - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

[futurevr4man]

Jrink ran fpreds and greens when he wrote his test thread showing MTC's new units and how they compared to his reds, maybe dig up some of his old threads?

As far as the 5k think goes, maybe check for exhaust leaks? Pressure test the intake one more time? I mean, even with 3.7L, thats only 1.8 L a bank feeding a bastard 20g on each side, spool wont be ridiculous, but 5k is a little on the late side.

As for the 9vs12 debate for turbines from NOMster, the switch is good for a 30whp gain. Its not hype, its flow and rotating mass sir.

Hell, easy proof (citing the dr750's ex you noted) current dr750v2 setups have piqued around the ~ 680ish whp mark without fully built engines, and have maintained spool vs the prior 11 bladed, tial turbine units piquing at 650 (like gregs setup when they first came out for example) (or rays)


Its not so much hype as that nobody runs them on this forum. I would LOVE to do a back to back comparo with someone rocking an e316g kit and then swapping them for billet e3's and said turbines.

Evo guys love them however

I was about to post what gump did about JRink. He never ran greens or reds. He had 16G's, MTC Stage 4's, and some sort of Holset if I remember right. He was trying to fit greens a bit ago, but didn't want to hack stuff up to make them fit.

And I never said it was hype or anything? I know the difference that an 11 blade vs 9 blade makes. I'm all for it!

[sergechronos]

Jrink ran fpreds and greens when he wrote his test thread showing MTC's new units and how they compared to his reds, maybe dig up some of his old threads?

As far as the 5k think goes, maybe check for exhaust leaks? Pressure test the intake one more time? I mean, even with 3.7L, thats only 1.8 L a bank feeding a bastard 20g on each side, spool wont be ridiculous, but 5k is a little on the late side.

As for the 9vs12 debate for turbines from NOMster, the switch is good for a 30whp gain. Its not hype, its flow and rotating mass sir.

Hell, easy proof (citing the dr750's ex you noted) current dr750v2 setups have piqued around the ~ 680ish whp mark without fully built engines, and have maintained spool vs the prior 11 bladed, tial turbine units piquing at 650 (like gregs setup when they first came out for example) (or rays)


Its not so much hype as that nobody runs them on this forum. I would LOVE to do a back to back comparo with someone rocking an e316g kit and then swapping them for billet e3's and said turbines.

Evo guys love them however

We already k ow there's an exhaust leak problem, but he is taking care of that.

From a turbo v turbo standpoint, I did talk with Justin on DSM tuners about turbo upgrades beyond 14Bs (on a 3.0l anyhow) and asked about a billet E3 set up, he said the E3 blades are already pretty thin with a small hub and hard to improve upon so billet may not add anything beyond cost. The FP 68HTA is just a billet 18G with extended tips., although popular with DSM and Evo guys, JRink didn't get much from them vs E3s until cranking them past 30psi (same may be said of the other FP offerings.)

What Justin did discuss and may be useful to OP is Evo X compressor wheels, which may not rock as hard as E3s at ultra high PRs, but in the teens to mid 20s are substantially quicker spooling and generate the same or more power, but they will fall off sooner.

On a pump gas set up, what are you running for boost now Nathan? Any water/meth injection? I know you said you're wanting high 20s out of your eventual solution, but what you're running now could help figure out alternatives.

As far as your boost controller issue, why not go load based ECU boost control through Chrome? OEM FPR has done well with people running low 20s, might be the best bang for the buck set up for you, just prevents swapping between a high and low boost set up on the fly.

[familyMAN]

What's your goal for HP? Start there.

• If you want quickest spool get the smallest turbo available that will reach your goal.
• If you want efficiency and pump gas power, buy the biggest one you can live with and get the biggest hotside you can. (If sticking with td05, FP 8cm).

Sounds like budget is still a consideration so what I would do is keep rocking the 20gs and fix all of the issues. Get it tuned, then go from there.

A cast 20g compressor is a bad match for high back pressure, high pressure ratio setups, so your approach for better efficiency is wise use for the cast 20g. If you insist on changes, here are some that I would do that keep the 20g cold side and don't add a ton of cost....

• If you aren't doing external wastegate dumps, I would add that to the list for sure.
• BTW, donniekak ran a td05 20g on his 2.0 talon. Switched to a td06h4 wheel with no other changes it had similar spool and made more power. Your 1.85l per turbo is close enough (within 8%) to 2.0l that I think the results should be considered. Justin (JusMX141) on dsmtuners can do the work for you. Not sure which hotside is necessary to fit the td06 wheel but he will know.

[flewis763]

im a turbo guy, design and build turbo all the time across all sorts of platforms. you want something not overly expensive but get some more out of it do what I suggested on page one. keep the td05 turbine wheel, don't switch to a td06, spool will be even worse. switch to a 9 blade turbine though. you will increase flow and maybe decrease spool a tad. if you want to down size a compressor a big for better spool, drop to an 18g. with a cover change there is no machine work need. basically you can get all new kinugawa parts and assemble it yourself if you choose. I use there stuff often and never had a single problem with any of there products.
Turbo Turbine wheel Mitsubishi TRUST T518Z TD05H-18G 20G Lighter 9 Blades SUBARU
Turbo Compressor Billet Wheel with Extend Tip / Small Central Mitsubishi TD05 TD06 TD06SL2 18G
Turbo Compressor Billet Wheel with Extend Tip / Small Central Mitsubishi TD05 TD06 TD06SL2 20G
Anti Surge Turbo Compressor Housing 3" TD05 / TD06 Fit 16G / 18G / 20G / 60-1 / 25G compressor wheel
Mitsubishi 3" Turbo Anti-Surge Compressor Housing & Whee TD05H TD06 18G (if you want to use a cast wheel this is slightly cheaper)

all their wheels come independently balanced so if you buy a compressor and turbine you can literally install them and go.

[familyMAN]

I wouldn't dismiss the td06h4 results. I know donniekak was a huge fan. Aero looks similar to the 9 blade td05 but td06h4 has more blades. Obviously larger...
9 blade td05
Inducer: 55.8 mm
Exducer: 49.1 mm

Td06H4
Inducer: 67.2mm
Exducer: 58.8mm

Would be an awesome back to back to back. 20g td05, 20g td05 aftermarket (9blade), 20g td06h4. Maybe even throw a td06sl2 in the mix, but I doubt the results on that are revolutionary based on my experience and the lack of outstanding results in the dsm world.

Back to the original post with a stated goal of 4-8k powerband, but no hp goal, plain ole evo3's fit the bill. Very impressive turbo.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Turbo choices... it's that time again. - Page 7 - 3000GT/Stealth International Message Center post 68