DeMotivators

[NickS VR4]

Demotivator: Congress is trying to up Ethanol to 15% in Fuel.

[Echo419]

Demotivator: Congress is trying to up Ethanol to 15% in Fuel.

if that happens watch the price of literally everything go up....again

[DocWalt]

But it saves money on gas!!!

[Echo419]

But it saves money on gas!!!

yeah in the same way drinking the water you're drowning in will keep you from drowning.

[DocWalt]

hehe

[Echo419]

[sergechronos]

Demotivator: Congress is trying to up Ethanol to 15% in Fuel.

Actually had a thought, and I'll admit I'm not super familiar with ethanol. Because this is 'Murica and I want my car running on gold ol' fashioned exploding dead dinosaurs.
Given you need more ethanol to be equivalent to the same amount of gas (in the way that you need like 780s for Ethanol to be equal to 550s for gas in terms of AF ratio), could you get to a point where some older cars literally just don't have the injector or pump capacity to supply enough fuel to prevent knock/detonation? Again, not super familiar with the way that the ethanol content affects gas, but, just a random thought.

[IPD]

Actually had a thought, and I'll admit I'm not super familiar with ethanol. Because this is 'Murica and I want my car running on gold ol' fashioned exploding dead dinosaurs.
Given you need more ethanol to be equivalent to the same amount of gas (in the way that you need like 780s for Ethanol to be equal to 550s for gas in terms of AF ratio), could you get to a point where some older cars literally just don't have the injector or pump capacity to supply enough fuel to prevent knock/detonation? Again, not super familiar with the way that the ethanol content affects gas, but, just a random thought.

lower MPG's is a myth. in a FLEX-FUEL vehicle, that is certainly the case. however, no one (as of this posting) is mass-marketing an engine designed specifically around e85 (or similar). that means that e85 ISN'T being fully utilized, so MPG comparisons aren't 100% equitable.

now if you had a engine designed on 87 octane that has "x" amount of power output, and an engine designed on 110 octane (e85) that has "x" output--THEN you could potentially make an apples to apples comparison. otherwise, you'd be making the same argument as someone complaining that they don't get better MPG's by putting 93 octane into a car that was designed for only 87.

[DK77]

^
Truth.

In response to question of 15% ethanol making your average car run wrong, highly unlikely. Most, if not all, factory cars have some sort of closed loop feedback to make sure they are running the proper air/fuel ratio. This system has to adjust for changes in elevation and weather which are much greater than throwing another 5% of ethanol in the tank. So cars that are already capable of running 10% ethanol won't see any noticeable change with 15% ethanol.

[sergechronos]

lower MPG's is a myth. in a FLEX-FUEL vehicle, that is certainly the case. however, no one (as of this posting) is mass-marketing an engine designed specifically around e85 (or similar). that means that e85 ISN'T being fully utilized, so MPG comparisons aren't 100% equitable.

now if you had a engine designed on 87 octane that has "x" amount of power output, and an engine designed on 110 octane (e85) that has "x" output--THEN you could potentially make an apples to apples comparison. otherwise, you'd be making the same argument as someone complaining that they don't get better MPG's by putting 93 octane into a car that was designed for only 87.

Wasn't a question about the MPGs, merely about the actual capacity as it takes more E85 versus gasoline as far as tuning to reach the appropriate AF ratio.
Like how running E85 requires 40-45% more fuel versus gasohol (if you run them in our cars at least).
If you extrapolate the 75% more ethanol requires 40% more fuel, that's about 1/2% more per each percent of ethanol. So a bump to 15% would require an additional ~2.5% fuel delivery.
If this is the case, hypothetically speaking, could you run into a situation with an older vehicle from say OBD1 era or early OBD2 where the vehicle may not have big enough injectors to actually compensate and therefore start running lean? Not so much with a bump to 15% ethanol, but if they keep increasing it up to say 20 or 25% or possibly higher, they could effectively render some older vehicles unusable without significant repairs.

Again: All hypothetical at this point. Just curious as to how this law could potentially impact lower income families that perhaps may not be able to afford to make those sorts of changes to a vehicle or afford a new one. Think I can turn this into an essay for my last poli sci paper which needs to be about a recent law and how it could impact America.