::VOTE:: February 2011 COTM :: All 3/S/GTO's!

[Sin'sVr4]

dont u wanta, dont u wanta fanta? lol

[JohnnyTurbo]

I should be close to the to pof the list with 3 engine builds.

pof=top? Could be, I know from reading that Hillbillyhomeboy said he had over $100k in his car when he sold it back in early 2008 for $20,000. I personally know of another 3S that had just over $100K spent on it over 9 years including 3 blown engines and sold for 15¢ on the dollar. So I'm guessing that there are many others yet unheard from out there that dumped in similar amounts into a 3S blackhole.

i have had a lot of services done at the dealership. at the time, most of that was without any quality 3/s mechanics within a 200 mile radius or more (except for the one dude at the dealership whom i trusted implicitly). on the other hand, my car has been extremely reliable for years; and i can't say the same for many other cars out there--so perhaps it's not all a waste?



you should just stop now. seriously. if you want to talk smack on a road course; then go to a road course. come to the NG and strut your stuff. this isn't a "who is fastest, who talks the most smack, who drives the best" thread. it's a ROTM thread.

Yeah, I'm with IPD here, quit while ahead. During driver's school at NG08, track day at NG08 and Track day at NG10 the NA cars on the road course was like getting behind a school bus. I was hitting 115+ on the short bumpy back straight at Indy and 140 on the main straight and I know there were no NAs doing close to that. A road course is an all out power indicator as opposed to the autocross where driver skill in maneuvering, responsiveness of the car to driver feedback allows lesser cars to beat more powerful cars.

On any given sunday, my stepson in his modded '04 Cavalier would beat a variety of C5 and C6 corvettes and their driver's. He did not have enough power to overpower the course, his car was set up to the max for handling (as much as a Cavalier can be) and the over cocky Corvette drivers would overpower the course and didn't have a clue as how to drive an autocross. The result was Cavalier - 1, Corvette - 0. A 140 HP Cavalier with springs, swaybars, adjustable shocks on a set of 18" Kuhmos beat regular C 5 & 6 vettes with more than twice the HP. This same senario is what allows Suthunr to beat the turbo cars at NG autocrosses. He can drive and his car can't overpower the course = winning combo.

[IPD]

i think the reference you're looking for is "like a group of elementary-school kids on a roller-skating rink"

i also think that auto-x favors light weight; so it's almost a double whammy. but, like someone's sig once read:

"let's race auto-x = "my car is too slow for drag racing and not properly built to handle a real road course, so let's dodge cones in the k-mart parking lot.""

[Sin'sVr4]

hahaha IPD thats some funny shit right thar!

[JohnnyTurbo]

...i also think that auto-x favors light weight; so it's almost a double whammy. but, like someone's sig once read:

"let's race auto-x = "my car is too slow for drag racing and not properly built to handle a real road course, so let's dodge cones in the k-mart parking lot.""

First part is correct. weight to hp being equal in both, a lighter car will beat a heavier car everytime where on paper they would seem to be equal. The reason being something called transitions. The laws of physics comes into play when you try to switch directions rapidly. With more mass, it takes more time to slow down and make the transition to the new direction. The lighter car can do it more quickly and is more nimble where the heavier car seems to lumber through the course. Example seen all the time: a supercharged Miata will beat out a heavier Corvette given both have the same weight to HP ratio and are driven by the same driver over the same course.

Last part was written by someone who doesn't have a clue about autocrossing.
A lot of autox guys simply switch tires to go on a road course.

[BigBoris]

First part is correct. weight to hp being equal in both, a lighter car will beat a heavier car everytime where on paper they would seem to be equal. The reason being something called transitions. The laws of physics comes into play when you try to switch directions rapidly. With more mass, it takes more time to slow down and make the transition to the new direction. The lighter car can do it more quickly and is more nimble where the heavier car seems to lumber through the course. Example seen all the time: a supercharged Miata will beat out a heavier Corvette given both have the same weight to HP ratio and are driven by the same driver over the same course.

Last part was written by someone who doesn't have a clue about autocrossing.
A lot of autox guys simply switch tires to go on a road course.

It's the wing, everyone thinks it means I'm a fan of Fast and Furious. None of my other cars had a wing, this one had it on when I bought it.

Now, sad thing here is nearly everyone with a VR4 spends most of the time trying to compare Dyno chart numbers like it means something. Even in drag racing a 600HP car can lose to a 400HP car. It's not just about being a good driver and response time. It's about weight to HP, having your suspension tuned for front to rear weight transfer, tire compound, tire pressure and everything in between.

In a road course its a bit more then that. But I'm not going to waste my time explaining my experience to these guys that clearly have no concept of road courses vs 1/4 mile and dyno charts. Keep in mind, this isn't my first car and I'm not 17...

[IPD]

...it's also about AWD vs. FWD or RWD.

...but yes, you should delete the wing.

[BigBoris]

...it's also about AWD vs. FWD or RWD.

...but yes, you should delete the wing.

Right about AWD/FWD/RWD but AWD only has the launch advantage given that the driver isn't a dumb ass.

[IPD]

your point was that a lot of variables come into play to determine which of any two given cars would win in a certain type of race. i agree.

my argument would be that i want a car i'm comfortable taking on a 2,000 mile road-trip tomorrow; and i'm willing to sacrifice some performance to have that.

if yours can beat mine, that's great. at least my teeth won't be chattering and hemorrhoids developing when i drive home from NG.

[BigBoris]

your point was that a lot of variables come into play to determine which of any two given cars would win in a certain type of race. i agree.

my argument would be that i want a car i'm comfortable taking on a 2,000 mile road-trip tomorrow; and i'm willing to sacrifice some performance to have that.

if yours can beat mine, that's great. at least my teeth won't be chattering and hemorrhoids developing when i drive home from NG.

Yeah, very true. My car is on verge of being a horrible daily driver...