Sad news about NG17

**MarkGT531** · 06-29-2017, 09:45 PM

i just recently got back into a 3s platform (picked up a 94 vr4 2 weeks ago) and was looking for meets, i just saw this pinned at the top n just found out.

**Echo419** · 06-30-2017, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by familyMAN

Tell that to Supras. Their forum is dead but somehow the platform keeps advancing. Same for many other platforms and the new platforms where enthusiasts go straight to FB for their online automotive social networking.

The forums are dying. Not not the platforms and that includes 3S based on what I've seen after joining FB reluctantly.

There are other custom widebody that have been done in the US. Plus quite a few adapting flares from other platforms.

Just because there aren't more people raising their cars to 4x4 status to follow your car's "stance" doesn't mean stuff isn't happening out there. I cannot believe how many single turbos are out there running around. They aren't posted on the forum. All on FB and instagram.

Our forum playground is basically dead. Sucks, because it's a great archive of technical knowledge, searchable and a much better forum for technical discussion.

Feature in the Fast and Furious movie. that's it.

**IPD** · 06-30-2017, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by Echo419

Feature in the Fast and Furious movie. that's it.

Seriously, it's smoke & mirrors. There's always going to be a few outliers who are exceptionally handy & do great work. No matter what platforms they work on--people will admire their work. FB is just a means to get more visibility. Thus it appears that the platform is progressing; but the truth is that the platform is nowhere near progressing, it's just that those outliers' additional visibility gives it that illusion.

"Online automotive social networking" isn't progress. It's shooting the shit, bragging about your e-peen because of the ride you have, and subduing jealous feelings caused by people who have nicer rides.

p.s.
I make no distinction between "hellaflush" and "stance". They are synonymous terms. Neither belongs on a car.

**familyMAN** · 06-30-2017, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by IPD

Seriously, it's smoke & mirrors. There's always going to be a few outliers who are exceptionally handy & do great work. No matter what platforms they work on--people will admire their work. FB is just a means to get more visibility. Thus it appears that the platform is progressing; but the truth is that the platform is nowhere near progressing, it's just that those outliers' additional visibility gives it that illusion.

"Online automotive social networking" isn't progress. It's shooting the shit, bragging about your e-peen because of the ride you have, and subduing jealous feelings caused by people who have nicer rides.

p.s.
I make no distinction between "hellaflush" and "stance". They are synonymous terms. Neither belongs on a car.

I make no distinction between purposeful 4x4 status and zero eye for aesthetics.

You sure do spend a lot of time on this dead online, social networking forum. Must love shooting your e-peen around to subdue jealousy. Don't try to say you are here for the technical info since you had someone else build most of your car and you talk as much about your SUV anyway.

Our forums are dead. Same for many other platforms that are still thriving. (Maybe not thriving to your aesthetic or lack of performance agenda, but thriving nonetheless)

**familyMAN** · 06-30-2017, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by Echo419

Feature in the Fast and Furious movie. that's it.

Ha! Sure. Maybe it's also because owners go out and race their cars and get featured on 1320video's YouTube channel, and that gets posted on FB.

There are a handful of 3S owners engaging in the new media (YouTube, FB, IG) to show off the platform and their rides. More of that promotion would engage other enthusiasts with the platform.

**Endersum** · 06-30-2017, 08:30 AM

While I don't disagree with many of the sentiments expressed here, I think we may have digressed from the main topic, myself included.

In an effort to return, here are a couple suggestions.

1. The travelling circus method.

Pick 2 road course tracks (the more difficult of the 3) that are in the "middle" one near Kentucky, one near Colorado. Alternate years, but go to the same tracks. Shoot for the same week every year. Screw cost, if we plan far enough out and lock it in, the cost will come down.

Pros
- Every other year, NG is closer and probably less than a day drive. On the off years, you either work on your car or the die-hards come anyway.
- You can run the same tracks, altitude, and probably close temp/humidity. Year over year you can benchmark your progress.
- you know where, you know when. You just don't know how much.
- develop a relationship with tracks and venues.

Cons
- new shiny track each year is not an option.
- every other year you have a shitting long drive unless by some chance you live in Tulsa. (Which I DID, BUT, don't anymore. I'm in Philly)
- initial cost may be higher, but when a track knows you are coming (ie booked two years in advance) I imagine that will drop.

I know I've not been the shining example of attendance, however I have been a sponsor in the past and will commit to some level of sponsorship (determined by Lori twisting my arms) if we as a community want to continue this. For me, the money is less of an issue than the burnt time.

2. A second option is to do some forum research and see if we can't find the other disgruntled children that their cars never made it and form the BCCOA, or "Bastard Car Club of America".

3. We all take our balls and go home. Literally and figuratively.

I'm a party to the "woe is me" thought process too. I love (/hate) my car and miss working on it, miss driving it. Miss hanging out with people who do that too.

These are my suggestions for the salvation of NG, and Lori, I wouldn't mind chatting about what you've tried and what works and doesn't. I've been in operations and logistics management for two decades and I might have some tricks. (Or nothing, it's 50/50)

The underlying suggestion would be to stop beating the dead horse we all love. Trigger isn't dead, but he ain't famous anymore. These cars will NEVER be Supras or Skylines. Paul Walker and Vin Diesel won't drive them on the big screen. There will never be a Ken Block gymkhana with one (although I do dream of that)

We must understand that every dollar we spend on these cars is immediately depreciated by 50% (or more) - And love them anyway.

I have two 93s. One is 90% and the other looks like "Christine" if I find a VR4 Spyder I might buy it, KNOWING I will swear at it more than my whiney 12 yr old.

I will either be at the next NG or commit to some funding help, Lori, you can quote me on that. The only stipulation I have is that we need to know by around Jan 15 at the latest when and where. My suggestions, in order of best to worst

1. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
2. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
3. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week.

Please feel free to offer constructive criticism. Tell me I'm an idiot. Tell me why it cannot be done. But offer something else as an option...or why are we on this thread?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

**stealthee** · 06-30-2017, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by IPD

Seriously, it's smoke & mirrors. There's always going to be a few outliers who are exceptionally handy & do great work. No matter what platforms they work on--people will admire their work. FB is just a means to get more visibility. Thus it appears that the platform is progressing; but the truth is that the platform is nowhere near progressing, it's just that those outliers' additional visibility gives it that illusion.

"Online automotive social networking" isn't progress. It's shooting the shit, bragging about your e-peen because of the ride you have, and subduing jealous feelings caused by people who have nicer rides.

p.s.
I make no distinction between "hellaflush" and "stance". They are synonymous terms. Neither belongs on a car.

You do realize car forums are just another "Online automotive social networking" site?

I don't like Facebook either. In fact I would say I hate it with a passion, but just because people are posting their stuff there doesn't mean it is any less accomplished. A friend of mine, who is a member here but has never really been an active poster is running a stroker with 14bs. There is another 3s at my buddy's shop that has a ton of money into its build. Yet another friend who has a few posts here, but basically doesn't do much online has a build that should make huge horsepower when he gets the time to finish it up.

Just because people aren't posting on our forums doesn't mean the platform is dead. All forums are dying and there are plenty of cars making huge progress all over the place.

**familyMAN** · 06-30-2017, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by stealthee

You do realize car forums are just another "Online automotive social networking" site?
.

No, I don't think he understood that in my original comment. He'll come back with something he thinks is witty though.

**Lori** · 07-01-2017, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Endersum

While I don't disagree with many of the sentiments expressed here, I think we may have digressed from the main topic, myself included.

In an effort to return, here are a couple suggestions.

1. The travelling circus method.

Pick 2 road course tracks (the more difficult of the 3) that are in the "middle" one near Kentucky, one near Colorado. Alternate years, but go to the same tracks. Shoot for the same week every year. Screw cost, if we plan far enough out and lock it in, the cost will come down.

Pros
- Every other year, NG is closer and probably less than a day drive. On the off years, you either work on your car or the die-hards come anyway.
- You can run the same tracks, altitude, and probably close temp/humidity. Year over year you can benchmark your progress.
- you know where, you know when. You just don't know how much.
- develop a relationship with tracks and venues.

Cons
- new shiny track each year is not an option.
- every other year you have a shitting long drive unless by some chance you live in Tulsa. (Which I DID, BUT, don't anymore. I'm in Philly)
- initial cost may be higher, but when a track knows you are coming (ie booked two years in advance) I imagine that will drop.

I know I've not been the shining example of attendance, however I have been a sponsor in the past and will commit to some level of sponsorship (determined by Lori twisting my arms) if we as a community want to continue this. For me, the money is less of an issue than the burnt time.

2. A second option is to do some forum research and see if we can't find the other disgruntled children that their cars never made it and form the BCCOA, or "Bastard Car Club of America".

3. We all take our balls and go home. Literally and figuratively.

I'm a party to the "woe is me" thought process too. I love (/hate) my car and miss working on it, miss driving it. Miss hanging out with people who do that too.

These are my suggestions for the salvation of NG, and Lori, I wouldn't mind chatting about what you've tried and what works and doesn't. I've been in operations and logistics management for two decades and I might have some tricks. (Or nothing, it's 50/50)

The underlying suggestion would be to stop beating the dead horse we all love. Trigger isn't dead, but he ain't famous anymore. These cars will NEVER be Supras or Skylines. Paul Walker and Vin Diesel won't drive them on the big screen. There will never be a Ken Block gymkhana with one (although I do dream of that)

We must understand that every dollar we spend on these cars is immediately depreciated by 50% (or more) - And love them anyway.

I have two 93s. One is 90% and the other looks like "Christine" if I find a VR4 Spyder I might buy it, KNOWING I will swear at it more than my whiney 12 yr old.

I will either be at the next NG or commit to some funding help, Lori, you can quote me on that. The only stipulation I have is that we need to know by around Jan 15 at the latest when and where. My suggestions, in order of best to worst

1. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
2. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week
3. Rotating two tracks, solid scheduled week.

Please feel free to offer constructive criticism. Tell me I'm an idiot. Tell me why it cannot be done. But offer something else as an option...or why are we on this thread?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I've given this A LOT of thought. Here are the problems I see: First, we're in Michigan and I own a business here. So having one track in Kentucky (9 hours) and one in Colorado (a 2-3 day drive) would make it impossible for me to run the event. The solution I see is to have one in Kentucky and maybe one in Memphis or St Louis. They're all a bit far for me, but I could make that sacrifice for the good of the event... There's more.

I understand what you're saying about the cost of the track getting lower if we book further out. Unfortunately, I have yet to deal with a track that will do that. Most won't even book before October/November, with no contract until after the first of the year because prices and rules change annually (as does the written contract, of course). Renting a track isn't like a normal business. I can talk to a track or two and see if they'd allow us to be a recurring group (VIR ONLY does things this way). We'd have to choose the tracks first. That brings us to the price... We'd need to have the money up front for this - I can't personally commit to that. To give you an idea, the last track I spoke to personally was approximately $8500 on a weekday, and over $11k on a weekend. Those are rough numbers, and without insurance. It's also JUST the road course track.

I think the BCCOA could work.

Part of the problem here is that for some reason people have stopped trusting me to run this thing. As with any business or event, when you first start and things are new, people love it and can't get enough. But the minute someone doesn't like one thing and points it out, the bandwagon begins. I've been criticized for A LOT of choices I've made, as evidenced here in this thread (though I do appreciate that a few of you have said you're not slamming me, just trying to be helpful). The two biggest and most recent are of course charging people to attend and using certificates instead of trophies in 2015. Not a single person has come out and said, "Hey - maybe they had a reason for doing that." Instead, it's, "That was a poor decision. It was a slap in the face." Things like that... Of course I never meant to offend anyone. But I have HUGE things going on in my personal life (a few know about it - it's been almost 3 years now) that are costing me a fortune. I CAN'T go out and buy trophies on my own right now. If I could, I'd be the first one to do it. I've put my own money into this event to make sure those little things were taken care of so people could have a great time, but those aren't the things that are noticed. So, as the bandwagon got bigger, people stopped trusting me. When we needed to ask people to help us fund this thing, or to donate, people started questioning every choice we made. And I totally understand that. But we gave the information people wanted, and yet a couple of years later we're still faced with "poor decisions" because we didn't do everything people wanted.

Here's the simple truth of it all... This event is a GUESSING GAME. When we're deciding what to charge, we're basing it on prior years' numbers. We don't know if we'll have 200 people and money left over, or we'll have 30 people and not nearly enough. It's extremely difficult. I'm certainly willing to talk to you about it, and I'm willing to look for solutions, but I'm fresh out of suggestions. I can't tell people that they can trust me. I've tried to show them, but that doesn't seem to work. I can't take away the registration fee, or we won't have insurance and other little things that the fee covers (registration packets, t-shirts).

I would certainly be willing to chat about what does/doesn't work. The concern I have is that no decisions have been made about an NG18. Neither Alan nor I believed anyone wanted this event to continue, or that there's enough support for it anymore. But I'm open to chatting - maybe you can change my mind.

Please don't take this post as "woe is me - nobody likes me." It's not that AT ALL. It's just me reflecting and realizing that I seem to be a large part of the problem. I'm unable to make this event work the way people want it to. If someone feels they can do that, then I'm happy to talk to them and walk them through planning it. I've put too much into this to just abandon it and walk away.

**kywhitelightning** · 07-04-2017, 06:13 PM

Something I believe the ungrateful crowd is missing here is that, I have never seen any of the NG committee not tirelessly working their butts off from sun up to sun down and sometimes even beyond those times. This only speaks of the time we are actually at the event. This doesn't include the hours and drives required just to set it up. Every year I attended the NG's Lori and company put on a week filled event. Not a couple hour hoorah. The package cost has always been negligible compared to the "show" I was presented with. I've always appreciated their sacrifice to this event. I unfortunately am also a part of the reason for this demise. Attendance is required for it to survive and I have been away from both my car and the forums for quite some time. I was actually shocked when I stopped by to see this event still trying to continue on.

I have no magic fairy dust solution to keep this event going but I offer this to the whole committee for their efforts, thank you all for doing the great things you have done for over a decade!!!!!

Jeff

PS: I just recently retired my NG08 tee shirt and pulled my ragged NG09 tee shirt out of the drawer. Those memories are priceless, TY all!!!!