NG16 - Information and a chance for you to influence the location

[BaadVR4]

We attended NG11 and made the lap at IMS. We had a ball. No complaints about fees or anything. For reasons totally unrelated to our NG11 experience, we have not been able to make another since. We did not vote, primarily because we didn't expect to be able to make NG16 and I didn't want to "skew" the vote.

All that said, an opportunity to do another lap of IMS, ESPECIALLY if it is a "better" lap would be a HUGE draw for us to attend NG16 if it is held. There may or may not be others of like mind, I don't know. My point is the NG draws different folks for different strokes. Since we now have two fully functional 3S cars, we would seriously consider bringing them both and drag racing the yellow car, just to see what it will do. With only one car, we just couldn't risk breaking our only ride home and having to arrange to store it in Indy and come back and get it. With two cars, we would at least still have a ride home. So the more "events/venues" available, the greater the draw potential.

Just my 1.5 cents worth.

[Lori]

Last update before a decision is made... It's not good news.

We have 35 voters that have either voted for the winning city and were therefore committed or that voted for one of the other cities and decided to commit. We had 7 voters that didn't bother to respond to posts or emails requesting their decision, therefore their money will automatically be refunded to them. We had 6 people that requested refunds.

That comes down to a lot less commitments than we had hoped for, so now we have decisions to make. They're pretty tough. A decision is, however, forthcoming. I've listened to what everyone has said. Now I need to weigh out the commitments vs. the amount of work that's involved for me to do this the way people seem to want it. The amount of additional work for next year would be HUGE, and honestly wouldn't be worth it for 60 people again. I'm really just not sure. The event has definitely changed from "we're happy with whatever you're willing to give" to constant criticism. It's pretty hard to volunteer so many hours when people just constantly aren't happy with any decision you make. And I have to admit... The people that screwed us this year really, really hurt me. Alan is on your side... He really wants another one. I'm just having a tough time with committing to it. Of course it's possible that I'll step down and he, Bridget, and Bob will take over on their own. That's always an option, too, and something we might need to discuss. I'm open to your comments.

[mannavr4]

Lori, I know you have a lot on your plate so I will help take some of the burden by making the decision for you.
Congratulations lori, I decided you are going to go threw with NG16.

[mannavr4]

So I was reading about the dsm shootout for ideas for the ng. They do a max effort race. It might help get more participants in drags. They take your best autox time and best drag time and add them together. No slicks aloud. Have to use same car setup and same driver for both events. I thought it sounded cool and wanted to share the idea. What are everybodys thoughts on doing this.

[JohnnyTurbo]

So I was reading about the dsm shootout for ideas for the ng. They do a max effort race. It might help get more participants in drags. They take your best autox time and best drag time and add them together. No slicks aloud. Have to use same car setup and same driver for both events. I thought it sounded cool and wanted to share the idea. What are everybody's thoughts on doing this.

Manny,
Summit Raceway only 30 miles west of me and is probably in the top 5 premier tracks in the country as far as track and facilities. The Shootout's autocross event is put on by N.O.R.A. who is probably the best independent organizer of autocross events you will ever find. The problem with applying their max race model to our cars is the breakage factor. DSM's and EVO's can handle the drags waaaaaay better than a 3S can, just ask David Buschur what he thinks of racing our platform, it's not a pretty answer. He didn't even want to waste his dyno time on tuning my car, he just suggested going somewhere that catered to the 3S platform. (IPS, Ray, etc). I'm guessing the drop in drags participation is the fear of breakage factor, I know it is for me and a few others I have talked to.

FWIIW Lori, I have not attended recent events because my car has not been able to start since being trailered back from the Blue Ridge Parkway in Oct 2012. For me no running car means no attending events. I'm hoping to get it running by next June, but that is not a given, so I won't commit to an event. My goal is to have it running by your early bird registration discount cut off date if there is a NG16.

I'm with Manny on the fact that no race events means no justification of expense to the event and back. I can hit any one of over 65 car show/cruise events that are held weekly in Northern Ohio for less than a tank of gas and when I park TWC, it gets mega attention. Vettes, schmettes - there is always a whole row of them and I am usually the only VR4 and always the most modified one, so just a car show event isn't a draw for me as well. The road course is a big number 1 draw followed by the autocross and I could care less about drag racing a 3S on a high traction strip.

I always will always bring my wife and it grinds on me that the cost is the same for her. I understand you stating that you have to cover everybody with insurance, so why can't the extra people in an entrant's party just be the price of their insurance cost? Drop the banquet just for the sake of lowering the registration fees. Less hassle for the organizers on all points and the awards could be given out in a parking lot. I was at an event with multi state participants last weekend and this is what they did and everyone was happy.
You NEED more attendees and IMHO cost is a factor in keeping them away. Make the included T-shirt optional, lower spouse/child costs & eliminate the cost of the drags and banquet before tanking the whole event. Try it for one event and see if it makes a difference, if it doesn't, then the writing is on the wall that the interest in the 3S platform has become too small to support a national event of the caliber you are trying to achieve.

All differences aside, you have done a fantastic job with the NGs. I have only been to your organized events and cannot compare your efforts to others, but I have witnessed that you have always given it your all for the community (event when the community has had you reaching for a tube of Preperatin-H ).

[93STLTH]

We had two people who attended the event without a registration and who refused to pay. There was really nothing I could do... They couldn't get on a track, but unless I have someone to watch the gate at all times, I can't prevent people from coming in. One had said he'd take care of it but then never did and later refused. In St. Louis, it was a huge issue as well. It's one of the things that makes me really thinking about not doing another one. People don't understand that they show up, enjoy all of the events, and think they shouldn't have to pay... then when the event doesn't make enough to cover their costs, I'm the one paying. And please don't tell me that everyone would stand behind me... Not a single person did this year.

Lori, I don't know if anyone was aware of this. At least, I never heard there was an issue with some of the participants. If I had known, I'm sure we could have recruited some of the larger 3S owners to have a talk with these owners and remind them of the importance of paying their registration fees.

[mannavr4]

I caught wind of this towards the end of the event. But I have no idea who the culprits were.

[mannavr4]

Manny,
Summit Raceway only 30 miles west of me and is probably in the top 5 premier tracks in the country as far as track and facilities. The Shootout's autocross event is put on by N.O.R.A. who is probably the best independent organizer of autocross events you will ever find. The problem with applying their max race model to our cars is the breakage factor. DSM's and EVO's can handle the drags waaaaaay better than a 3S can, just ask David Buschur what he thinks of racing our platform, it's not a pretty answer. He didn't even want to waste his dyno time on tuning my car, he just suggested going somewhere that catered to the 3S platform. (IPS, Ray, etc). I'm guessing the drop in drags participation is the fear of breakage factor, I know it is for me and a few others I have talked to.

FWIIW Lori, I have not attended recent events because my car has not been able to start since being trailered back from the Blue Ridge Parkway in Oct 2012. For me no running car means no attending events. I'm hoping to get it running by next June, but that is not a given, so I won't commit to an event. My goal is to have it running by your early bird registration discount cut off date if there is a NG16.

I'm with Manny on the fact that no race events means no justification of expense to the event and back. I can hit any one of over 65 car show/cruise events that are held weekly in Northern Ohio for less than a tank of gas and when I park TWC, it gets mega attention. Vettes, schmettes - there is always a whole row of them and I am usually the only VR4 and always the most modified one, so just a car show event isn't a draw for me as well. The road course is a big number 1 draw followed by the autocross and I could care less about drag racing a 3S on a high traction strip.

I always will always bring my wife and it grinds on me that the cost is the same for her. I understand you stating that you have to cover everybody with insurance, so why can't the extra people in an entrant's party just be the price of their insurance cost? Drop the banquet just for the sake of lowering the registration fees. Less hassle for the organizers on all points and the awards could be given out in a parking lot. I was at an event with multi state participants last weekend and this is what they did and everyone was happy.
You NEED more attendees and IMHO cost is a factor in keeping them away. Make the included T-shirt optional, lower spouse/child costs & eliminate the cost of the drags and banquet before tanking the whole event. Try it for one event and see if it makes a difference, if it doesn't, then the writing is on the wall that the interest in the 3S platform has become too small to support a national event of the caliber you are trying to achieve.

All differences aside, you have done a fantastic job with the NGs. I have only been to your organized events and cannot compare your efforts to others, but I have witnessed that you have always given it your all for the community (event when the community has had you reaching for a tube of Preperatin-H ).

I don't care what Dave buschur thinks of our platform. The truth is dsm and evo have there shear of problems. The difference is in numbers. There are so many of them and they share the same parts for the most part that there is huge aftermarket support for all of there weak links.

It's not, "let's compare those cars to ours". Its more of a, "wow that's a cool idea and why don't we try it".
The NG holds autox and drags so my question was just about the thought of adding another category to get people excited.

I think it helps showcase a best all around car build.

[Uniuno]

I'd totally do the Max Effort thing if it was offered for NG. I was at the DSM shootout this year. They have TONS of classes, and tons of cars. Not just DSMs and EVOs, they have GTRs, cars with 4G engines (mustangs, supras, FD, you name it). It's primarily a drag racing event though, very hard to compare to the NG which is a much more "all around" event.

I also didn't know there were some non-payers, they should be outted and publicly flogged lol.

[Zucchini]

Lori,

The ideas we are suggesting in this thread are just input. If it remains relatively the same as it was, I will still attend, as I'm sure most will. You, of course, cannot please everyone. If the guest registration remains what it is, then so be it. I'm still gonna pay it. It's worth the few extra bucks for the fun that I have. If it's too much of a burden to itemize the choices, then don't even bother. I think what most people here want is to just be able to attend an NG16. Also, I don't think most people were really aware of the situation with the nonpayers. I think I may have had an idea but wasn't positive. If one of them was who I'm thinking, I didn't realize that person really taking part in much of anything anyway. There should be a zero tolerance policy on this and if you made some other attendees aware, I'm sure it wouldn't happen again.