tearing apart engine.

[DrGonzo]

You'll have no issue running your current heads on a TT block. Unless you bent a valve you most likely will not need to have your guides replaced. The machine shop should just check that the head is straight, replace the VSS and clean it. Unless you were having compression issue of bent a valve there is no need to a valve job. The valve in the head should be seating just fine. Since you are just throwing your 13T's back on and they ran fine before, no need in doing a full head rebuilt. That is exactly what I did on my last engine and it runs fine. I'm using N/A heads with TT exhaust Cams. The flow differences in the TT and N/A head is very minimal. TT exhaust cam is used as they keep the exhaust side open longer than the N/A cam's do. Unless you are pushing the limits of an engine and need that extra flow, you will never notice the difference in the heads. I actually think I have better low end now due to the N/A heads...

If you go with Forged pistons you will have to have the engine bored. Nobody makes stock size bore forged pistons that I know of.

You need to plan you build based off of your power goals. If you're only looking to go 400-450hp than stock internals are fine but recommend a forged crank. If you looking to go 500+ then you need to get a forged crank and forged pistons. Over 600+ HP you'll need better rods. My build is rated for the 450hp mark. I'm running a forged crank and stock rods/pistons. My forged crank is also turned and I'm running .020 oversized bearings on the main and .010 oversized bearing on the rods running a .0025 clearance on both. I have great oil pressure running it this way. This engine currently only has about 7k on it.

[Jimvr4]

Ray P makes forged pistons for stock bores. That's what I run

[shmoo]

Yeah, heads are expensive business. The 24 guides cost me $10 each for the machining, cost like $200 for the guides. The VSS were viton, cost me about $75 for the set IIRC and they charged 25 to install them. The 5 angle valve job was 175 a head including disassembly, cleaning, machine work and reassembly and I provided them with extra valves so they could choose the best 24. I smoothed out casting marks in the runners on mine since they were getting cleaned anyhow. Going beyond that I wouldn't trust anyone but DR to do it.

wouldn't trust ray's shop to do such a task? i thought they did bang up work..

anywho, i'll have to give dynamic a call. i want to do it right, so i'm not ripping anything apart for a second time. well, not anytime soon at least.

You'll have no issue running your current heads on a TT block. Unless you bent a valve you most likely will not need to have your guides replaced. The machine shop should just check that the head is straight, replace the VSS and clean it. Unless you were having compression issue of bent a valve there is no need to a valve job. The valve in the head should be seating just fine. Since you are just throwing your 13T's back on and they ran fine before, no need in doing a full head rebuilt. That is exactly what I did on my last engine and it runs fine. I'm using N/A heads with TT exhaust Cams. The flow differences in the TT and N/A head is very minimal. TT exhaust cam is used as they keep the exhaust side open longer than the N/A cam's do. Unless you are pushing the limits of an engine and need that extra flow, you will never notice the difference in the heads. I actually think I have better low end now due to the N/A heads...

If you go with Forged pistons you will have to have the engine bored. Nobody makes stock size bore forged pistons that I know of.

You need to plan you build based off of your power goals. If you're only looking to go 400-450hp than stock internals are fine but recommend a forged crank. If you looking to go 500+ then you need to get a forged crank and forged pistons. Over 600+ HP you'll need better rods. My build is rated for the 450hp mark. I'm running a forged crank and stock rods/pistons. My forged crank is also turned and I'm running .020 oversized bearings on the main and .010 oversized bearing on the rods running a .0025 clearance on both. I have great oil pressure running it this way. This engine currently only has about 7k on it.

so, you're saying maybe to just send off my na heads for:

-cleaning
-vss
-(99 lifters)

and maybe a set of tt exhaust cams?

or, even not send that junk off, i can reinstall cam shafts, rockers, and lifters. i need a special tool to install the vss, don't i?

so, maybe just go get these na heads cleaned, and install:
-vss
-99 lifters
-tt exhaust cams (gears and shafts?)

and slap all those things onto a healthy block?

_isiah

[shmoo]

so, what's the difference between rod and main bearings? the main bearings sit up in the cradle, while the rod bearings go around the crank?

would i only want oversized bearings if i had to take so much off the crank to make good clearance?

so would it be reasonable to just:
-get a 2 bolt tt block that's already together

-and slap new vss, tt exhaust cams, and 99 lifters in my na heads and be done?

_isiah

[sergechronos]

wouldn't trust ray's shop to do such a task? i thought they did bang up work..

anywho, i'll have to give dynamic a call. i want to do it right, so i'm not ripping anything apart for a second time. well, not anytime soon at least.

You misunderstand, I meant going beyond just smoothing casting marks (ie, actual port and polish work) I wouldn't trust anyone other than Dynamic Racing to do the heads or else they could do more harm than good.

so, you're saying maybe to just send off my na heads for:

-cleaning
-vss
-(99 lifters)

and maybe a set of tt exhaust cams?

or, even not send that junk off, i can reinstall cam shafts, rockers, and lifters. i need a special tool to install the vss, don't i?

Yes, if the heads are in good shape that's all you need. Being as the short block obviously isn't a TT, and we don't know yet if your heads are TT or NA, I still say have a machine shop check your valve to guide clearance and make sure it's good as well as your valve seats since we don't know the true mileage or condition of the motor. A good shop won't charge you much (if anything) to check it out, and if you do have issues, it's better to find out now.

You need a special tool to do the VSS on the car, with it off the car you can use (if you can find one that fits) a fairly standard valve spring compressor and socket with a clearance spot ground out to get the keepers on and off. Pretty much anything that will compress the spring and allow you to get access to remove and reinstall the keepers is all that you need to do it.

You can swap the TT exhaust cams on yourself without any trouble, just keep your cam caps in order. you can also do the 99 lifters on your own as well but if you're having a machine shop do the VSS then you might as well have them toss them in during reassembly. A machine shop's cleaning of the heads would require disassembling everything anyhow so if you're going to have them do it, might as well have them do the VSS and the lifters. You can do it both yourself with a bit of patience and the right tool, especially since you're removing the valve springs for the VSS replacement that's an easy time to swap lifters as well.

so, what's the difference between rod and main bearings? the main bearings sit up in the cradle, while the rod bearings go around the crank?

would i only want oversized bearings if i had to take so much off the crank to make good clearance?

so would it be reasonable to just:
-get a 2 bolt tt block that's already together

-and slap new vss, tt exhaust cams, and 99 lifters in my na heads and be done?

_isiah

Rod bearings go on the larger end of the rod, the main bearings sit in the block/cradle, both types of bearings go around the crank.

In general oversized bearings are only used when the clearance is out of spec due to turning the crank. I've heard of people putting them after spinning a bearing on other platforms, but have my doubts about that.

[TurboSinceBirth]

Ray P makes forged pistons for stock bores. That's what I run

Not only that but Ray's stock sized pistons are the same weight as factory so you don't have to rebalance the lower end. I don't think too many people are fully aware of that or realize it. If you get aftermarket forged rods everything has to be balanced anyways but for just a piston upgrade you can save the $2-250 for balancing.

[shmoo]

hmmmm. learning learning..

question:

you said to be sure to keep the cam shaft caps in the same spots. that's fine i suppose. but when i go to put in the tt shafts, do i want to use the cam caps from the tt shafts, or the na head? got me?

and i have one set of na heads for sure (that are here in texas with me) and a set of 2 bolt tt heads that are back in missouri. i have a good feeling that the tt heads are going to be in far rougher shape than the na ones.

and, if it would save me money and time to just use the na ones (as in being able to keep them local, i'd probably just do that.

when i replace the vss, will i be removing the valve guides too?

and is there a special tool that y'all are buying to do this, or just cutting up a socket and getting the generic valve spring compressor?

let me know.

thanks

_isiah

[sergechronos]

The cam caps are respective to the heads, not the cams. So whatever order you took them off the heads, is the order you need to put them back on those same heads.
TT cams are pretty cheap to buy used.

VSS doesn't remove the valve guides. Those are the bronze/brass inserts inside of the head that the valve slides up and down in. If you look in the exhaust runners you can generally see the bottoms of them sticking out.

I actually had a valve spring compressor that was about the right size, but don't remember brand or model off hand. You could use a C clamp and a cut out socket (or pipe) to mimic it.

Valve Stem Seals (VSS) Replacement - 3SI Wiki

That gives all the directions you would need. I don't know that the bluepoint tool can be used with the heads removed. Not sure if it would bend a valve trying to use a flat surface under it to hold it in place or not, but I imagine it isn't ideal compared to a C shaped valve spring compressor.

[shmoo]

^^it'd be dope nasty if you could post pictures of the tool you use to remove the springs.

and, when you say the order i removed the cam shaft caps in, do you mean literally the exact same order i removed them in, or that i just need to make sure they all go back in the same exact place?

but yeah, the tool i need would be awesome. hopefully i'll take these things to a machine shop so i can get started on them at least.

y, i'm still deciding on a route to pick up this engine.

thanks

_isiah

[DrGonzo]

^^it'd be dope nasty if you could post pictures of the tool you use to remove the springs.

and, when you say the order i removed the cam shaft caps in, do you mean literally the exact same order i removed them in, or that i just need to make sure they all go back in the same exact place?

but yeah, the tool i need would be awesome. hopefully i'll take these things to a machine shop so i can get started on them at least.

y, i'm still deciding on a route to pick up this engine.

thanks

_isiah

The cam caps will have numbers on them and an arrow point to the front of the head. They need to be installed in the same order as that was the order they were in when the cam area was line bored. If they are not in the same place the hole will not be round and the cam will not turn.

As for the VSS, I find them to be the biggest pain in the ass of the whole engine build. I have a homemade tool I use for it which makes it easier to remove them. I tried using a bluepoint tool to install the wedges and broke a damn valve with it...POS tool. Next time I ned to do any head work that involves removing valves or springs it's going to the shop and they can deal with it....