Cool vid of F-35 carrier testing.

[Ange]

word on the street is that the f35 and F22 is a POS compared to Russian Sukhoi T-50 PAK FA
and Chinese Chengdu J-20

[Vantage]

FYI, Ange.

Recent claims that Russian fighters defeated F-35s in a Hawaii-based simulated combat exercise are untrue, according to Maj. Gen. Davis.

"The reports are completely false and misleading and have absolutely no basis in fact," Maj. Gen. Davis said. "The August 2008 Pacific Vision Wargame that has been referenced recently in the media did not even address air-to-air combat effectiveness. The F-35 is required to be able to effectively defeat current and projected air-to-air threats. All available information, at the highest classification, indicates that F-35 is effectively meeting these aggressive operational challenges."

The Pacific Vision Wargame was a table-top exercise designed to assess basing and force-structure vulnerabilities, and did not include air-to-air combat exercises or any comparisons of different aircraft platforms.

Setting the Record Straight on F-35 | Lockheed Martin

Obviously, Lockheed will defend their product. The video however makes no mention of the F-22, besides it apparently being in the 'scenario.' Calling the Raptor a POS, couldn't be further from the truth.

[Ange]

FYI, Ange.



Setting the Record Straight on F-35 | Lockheed Martin

Obviously, Lockheed will defend their product. The video however makes no mention of the F-22, besides it apparently being in the 'scenario.' Calling the Raptor a POS, couldn't be further from the truth.

yeah I obviously have no deeper knowlage in this. it was just a youtube vid linked to the vid TS posted. maybe it's biased. But I don't think they lied about the simulation of F35's and F22's vs the Sukhoi and Chengdu.

I wonder how Swedens own JAS39 Gripen would do. Maybe outdated by now.

[IPD]

yeah I obviously have no deeper knowlage in this. it was just a youtube vid linked to the vid TS posted. maybe it's biased. But I don't think they lied about the simulation of F35's and F22's vs the Sukhoi and Chengdu.

I wonder how Swedens own JAS39 Gripen would do. Maybe outdated by now.

you're fucking hilarious. first you repeat some baseless BS like how the f-22 is worthless against pak-fa/su-50/j-20....then you follow it up with the rediculous suggestion that a swedish 4th gen fighter will somehow outperform the worlds premier 5th gen fighter.

my normal reaction to armchair QB's like you is a mixture of amusement, rage and pity. i can't tell you how many times i've heard the same crap from some idiot about the raptor/lightning 2--and then a plug for the goddamn grippen. you people are batshit insane.

for the record, if you WERE going to pick a fighter other than the raptor to put up against the su-50/j-20...you'd have at least sounded somewhat intelligent if you'd suggested the eurofighter or the rafale. and even then, neither of those would stand a chance. those who decry the raptor have ZERO idea what it is capable of. i do....i've worked with them. maybe once the su-50/j-20 reach operational status for a few years...THEN we can try a head-head comparison. until then, it's just a lot of hot air from the peanut gallery.

p.s.
i've seen that video multiple times. those who actually work with blue force fighters for a living know all too well that we like to handicap our own forces in any exercises. consider it a psychological advantage when the enemy doesn't know wtf just happened. we've done it with exercises with the IAF too. so i'll keep smiling while the BS keeps flowing.

[Ange]

you're fucking hilarious. first you repeat some baseless BS like how the f-22 is worthless against pak-fa/su-50/j-20....then you follow it up with the rediculous suggestion that a swedish 4th gen fighter will somehow outperform the worlds premier 5th gen fighter.

my normal reaction to armchair QB's like you is a mixture of amusement, rage and pity. i can't tell you how many times i've heard the same crap from some idiot about the raptor/lightning 2--and then a plug for the goddamn grippen. you people are batshit insane.

for the record, if you WERE going to pick a fighter other than the raptor to put up against the su-50/j-20...you'd have at least sounded somewhat intelligent if you'd suggested the eurofighter or the rafale. and even then, neither of those would stand a chance. those who decry the raptor have ZERO idea what it is capable of. i do....i've worked with them. maybe once the su-50/j-20 reach operational status for a few years...THEN we can try a head-head comparison. until then, it's just a lot of hot air from the peanut gallery.

p.s.
i've seen that video multiple times. those who actually work with blue force fighters for a living know all too well that we like to handicap our own forces in any exercises. consider it a psychological advantage when the enemy doesn't know wtf just happened. we've done it with exercises with the IAF too. so i'll keep smiling while the BS keeps flowing.

dude...

why are you always so angry? do you have some sort of diagnose?

Like I said I know nothing about this topic. I never said Jas39 was capable of anything it was a question but thanks for the answer I guess...

[Trevor]

J-20 is pure vaporware right now. It'll be quite a while before it's even worthy of burning brain cycles on.

[zelstin]

what's your point/what's your question? the USA has a palatable aversion to the death of its citizens at the hands of foreigners. do you deny this?

I think the argument of casualties in a $XX Million aircraft vs a $XXX Million aircraft is pretty ridiculous when we send infantry to war without the protection garnered by a deputy badge here in the states. I understand the higher capability of a pilot, public relations, and all the other factors that make this a remotely debatable topic. But, stripped down to a purely life to life argument, it don't make no fuckin' cents.

[AgentOblivious]

As I understand it, the Rand test wasn't an actual war games battle, but rather a computer simulation.

Either way, it doesn't matter if the F35 is superior to Russian and Chinese fighters, as it'll more than likely be outnumbered in any real scenario, which is a bad spot to be in with so few onboard weapons.

[IPD]

I think the argument of casualties in a $XX Million aircraft vs a $XXX Million aircraft is pretty ridiculous when we send infantry to war without the protection garnered by a deputy badge here in the states. I understand the higher capability of a pilot, public relations, and all the other factors that make this a remotely debatable topic. But, stripped down to a purely life to life argument, it don't make no fuckin' cents.

it's not just death that we dislike...it's the loss of billions of dollars of equipment that we'd have to replace. in the air-air realm, you don't simply repair the losers--it's not like you might be able to do with tanks. if the difference between $$ and $$$ airplanes is the difference between a 51-49 victory and 100-0 victory....then it really behooves us to pony up the extra cash.