Using MAF Translator with SAFC 2

[whitedevilstealth]

Can I do it and what would I set the "sensor type" to on the SAFC2?

[Atrosity]

Yeah you can do it, this is what bboyalan did on his vr4, you set your maf translator for a base tune and you can go blowthrough and you have your afc2 for a finer tune. You can also add in an SITC if you want timing control.

[Ray Pampena]

i do it on almost every build

[whitedevilstealth]

What do I set the sensor type on the SAFC to? Hotwired? It's been tuned with the SAFC already so can I just leave the knobs on the Translator zeroed out?

[mikeyVR4]

Would it be better to use the MAFT with SAFC 2 or just using the MAFT Gen 2?

[Lithium]

I just left the MAFT zeroed out and used the AFC for all the tuning, works great.

[Ray Pampena]

I just left the MAFT zeroed out and used the AFC for all the tuning, works great.

This is the way to do it. I use the maf translator to set the injector size then tune with the afc. You still set the afc to karman.

I still like the older maf translator best. An afc has great tunability and even has 2 maps. You can't beat it... its just so simple

[Lithium]

^ I'm really enjoying my SAFC2 now that I watched your anti-lag you tube video lol! I have one profile for my regular tune and the second profile set for when I need to embarrass someone.

[whitedevilstealth]

So can I run bigger than 550's with the afc if I set the injector size on the translator?

[Lithium]

^yes but I wouldn't go crazy. Use the MAFT to compensate for the bigger injectors and then use the AFC to fine tune everything. Post a picture of your setup, Its always fun to see others blow-thru setups.

[whitedevilstealth]

I have the car tore apart right now waiting for my 19t's. I was thinking like 680's. I have it tuned with the afc for 550's right now. I will be buying the translator and sensor within the next month or so. It's snowing here so no reason to rush.

[Lithium]

You should be fine, I'm running 600cc injectors at the moment with the same setup.

[futurevr4man]

lithium, i saw the 2-step video ray made... could you make one of yours? it took a while for him to build boost, and im curious if you lean it out some if it could build a bit quicker?

i have the exact same setup ray does. i havent tuned it yet because of a couple other issues. hoping to have it back up and running by next spring... aiming for 10's!

[Ray Pampena]

it actually can build boost faster than the vid showed because i didnt have my foot into it enough there.

[mikeyVR4]

So the old MAFT is the way to go with a SAFC II. The MAFT GEN 2 isn't as good or simple as a old MAFT and SAFC II?

[DrkZide]

Just wondering but why a MAFT?

[Lithium]

I will see what I can dig up for you, I actually set my low throttle at 50% because I'm really only going to use that profile at the drag strip. Once Ive reached the 60' mark I'm going to be full throttle anyway. I really haven't spent much time messing with it but I was hitting 8psi on 16ts within a few seconds.

[Lithium]

Just wondering but why a MAFT?

It allows you to use a GM MAF, thus allowing you to go blow-thru and vent to atmosphere properly.

[Lithium]

So the old MAFT is the way to go with a SAFC II. The MAFT GEN 2 isn't as good or simple as a old MAFT and SAFC II?

The basic MAFT is simple and easy, The MAFT gen 2 and Pro are great too considering you can log and use them as boost controllers as well. To be honest I just got the MAFT because I wanted to go Blow-thru.

[DrkZide]

Is that the only reason? To run open atmosphere? Or is it good for running larger injectors too?

[Lithium]

Is that the only reason? To run open atmosphere? Or is it good for running larger injectors too?

I don't have any experince running anything larger than 600cc with this setup but I'm sure you could run larger. The nicest thing I've noticed is my car runs much better with the MAFT and SAFC 2 with the 600cc Injectors then just the SAFC 2 alone. I would tread lightly if you're planning to use larger injectors with this setup. They are both basically fooling the ecu by the same means, and some what scary if you think about it.

[futurevr4man]

i surprised the maft and the safc dont "argue" with eachother and screw it all up. i guess i dont know anything though lol

my spool time also got better when i went blow thru. there are other advantages like if you blow an intercooler pipe you can still drive, and your tune will be more consistent because the maf will be right before the throttle body (after the turbos) instead of the very beginning (before the turbos). ON TOP OF THAT the popular GM maf is a true mass air flow sensor whereas our stock mas's are volume air flow sensors... so there are quite a few reasons to switch. besides the money there is really no downfall.

and using the maft with the safcII is probably the "easiest" but thats a relative term. the maft pro is a great tuning device though, i dont know anything about the genII.

[mikeyVR4]

Which would you suggest:

Original MAFT with SAFC II

or

MAFT Gen II --- also, would I need to use a SAFC II with the Gen II and does the MAFT Gen II come with its own built in Boost Controller?

[Lithium]

Here you go buddy.
Click me (http://www.maftpro.com/)


Which would you suggest:

Original MAFT with SAFC II

or

MAFT Gen II --- also, would I need to use a SAFC II with the Gen II and does the MAFT Gen II come with its own built in Boost Controller?

[Lithium]

Just use the 2G DSM MAFT and an Apexi SAFC 2. If you wanted to control boost then you would need to buy the MAFT PRO, But if you're going to buy the pro you dont even need the SAFC.

[hated]

Does the MAFT PRO have 2 maps, and let you do the 2 step?

[Lithium]

^ I dont see why it wouldnt but you could call and ask.

[IPD]

so let me see if i understand correctly:

maf sensor by filter = draw through.

maf sensor by throttle body = blow through.

is that correct?

should i ditch the safc2 and get a maft-pro; or should i keep it and the safc2 & stick with my MBC?

(looking to run 680cc injectors, 16g's and 3.5L)

[Lithium]

so let me see if i understand correctly:

maf sensor by filter = draw through.

maf sensor by throttle body = blow through.


Blow through = maf reading sfter turbos.

Draw through = maf reading before turbos.

is that correct?

should i ditch the safc2 and get a maft-pro; or should i keep it and the safc2 & stick with my MBC?

(looking to run 680cc injectors, 16g's and 3.5L)

I would keep the SAFC and just use the MAFT to compensate for your injector size. Use the SAFC for all the fine tuning. If you havent setup a MAFT before then you wouldnt know about the built in injector compensation carts.

[IPD]

sounds like i need blow-through and a maft. (i know jack-squat about tuning, injector-size signals, etc).

since i won't be getting the pro, what should i use for boost control?

[Lithium]

sounds like i need blow-through and a maft. (i know jack-squat about tuning, injector-size signals, etc).

since i won't be getting the pro, what should i use for boost control?

I just realized I destroyed my last post. Blow through means the MAF is after the turbos along the intake track and draw through means its before the turbos. Don't worry about the tuning its not as hard as people make it out to be. For the money the best boost controller I have ever used was a hallman MBC. It held up to 19 PSI all day long and it was very consistent.

[IPD]

i have a generic 3sx MBC that 3sx installed with my tt-swap originally. should i upgrade? do you have a good link for where to get it?

p.s.
STM seems to have KILLER prices on MAF components...

p.p.s.

< post 1,000. i am officially a WHORE.

[IPD]

Order (http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/order.html#EvolutionRX)

is this what i should get?

[IPD]

This is the way to do it. I use the maf translator to set the injector size then tune with the afc. You still set the afc to karman.

I still like the older maf translator best. An afc has great tunability and even has 2 maps. You can't beat it... its just so simple

i HAVE to ask the main man:

help me out, ray. lithium and a few others (yourself included) seem to think that maf-t (1g) blow through + SAFC2 is a great way to go. STM is telling me that MAF is garbage and i should stick to just SAFC2; or go directly to AEM.

my build is 3.5L, 16g, 680cc injectors (might upgrade to 750's later), pure pump gas (no power adders, no charge coolers). i currently have a 9966 ecu and SAFC2. i intend to use this car as my daily; and i desire a set & forget tune (i don't want to worry about climate change, altitude change, etc).

what do you suggest is the best option for me?

[Lithium]

Order (http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com/order.html#EvolutionRX)

is this what i should get?

Yes that the MBC I was talking about. The ones in the pictures seem to have the cab control cable.

As for tuning, you really cant beat and AEM. The only issues I have ever encountered with an AEM is they all way run like shit until they warm up. It seems like an AEM would be more ideal for your build Since its so much more complicated then just larger turbos and injectors.

[IPD]

but that's the problem. i'm not going to be happy with an $800 tune on AEM. i want my car to feel, run and drive like stock. afaik, you're not going to be able to do that with AEM without plunking down just as much on tuning as you did on the unit itself.

when you take that into account, we're talking a $2500-3000 difference between maf & translator vs. AEM; including the tune.

[Lithium]

but that's the problem. i'm not going to be happy with an $800 tune on AEM. i want my car to feel, run and drive like stock. afaik, you're not going to be able to do that with AEM without plunking down just as much on tuning as you did on the unit itself.

when you take that into account, we're talking a $2500-3000 difference between maf & translator vs. AEM; including the tune.

I say go with MAFT and SAFC If you dont like the way it turns out then sell the setup ( they're very popular in the community) and go AEM.

[IPD]

fair enough. i'm ordering one.

[J. Fast]

i HAVE to ask the main man:

help me out... my build is 3.5L, 16g, 680cc injectors (might upgrade to 750's later), pure pump gas (no power adders, no charge coolers). i currently have a 9966 ecu and SAFC2. i intend to use this car as my daily; and i desire a set & forget tune (i don't want to worry about climate change, altitude change, etc).

what do you suggest is the best option for me?

A standalone is a great option and I would think would be the right solution. A MAF is a fantastic tuning solution as well. I think you would be exceptionally pleased if you used a GM MAF with a standalone. MAF is exceptional since it gives very accurate fuel delivery calculating. The thing with MAF is you need a controller with more granularity and resolution than an AFC to make it work properly, weather that be an AEM or Autronic. MAF / SD both are good and have trade offs. If you'r concerns are driveability use a MAF, but use an EMS too :)

The very problem you describe climate / altitude change / is resolved with standalone when you introduce both baro and map sensors and you tel the software to allow the map sensor to take a baro reading before start up. It will allow the ECU to re-zero the MAP KPA scale and "click click" start. It has been -30 degrees here in Colorado the past few days, last Thursday and Friday it was 60 degrees. Regardless if temp I get in my car, turn the key, and "click click" vroom. The past 30 below zero days it fired in two cranks but still took less than 5 seconds.

[IPD]

your suggestion is to get AEM and use MAF; rather than convert to speed density? reasons for this?

and i hadn't heard that i couldn't get enough fine-tuning from an SAFC+ MAF. care to elaborate?

[J. Fast]

Well MAP is a projected airflow estimation and MAF is an exact airflow measurement so which one has more precision when calculating fuel delivery? At one point in time I used to think MAP>MAF Well that really isn't so. Map is cheap and very stable but sensitive to modification changes. With Map any time you change something on your vehicle and alter the airflow you have to re-tune or tweak this and that unless you start integrating additional sensors such as baro, fuel, and etc. MAF, well, you spend more time upfront but your fuel compensation will always be the same based on airflow. The only real difference between in the two is when they calculate airflow. One calculates based on the exact amount of air being metered before the TP, the other uses Boyle's thermodynamic principle to estimate CFM.


Why standalone w/MAF over MAF AFC aswell? Well, BSFC for one, BSFC can be manipulated by AFR. Second and most important, anything accessing load of manifold pressure will compensate all tables. When you use MAF and AFC you compensate linearly, and globally. Compensations are very rarely linear, most all are parabolic. Finally, your car isn't stock and either is the volumetric airflow. 3.5L tells me larger bore, different stroke, different VE, different fuel and timing compensation requirements. What you have going on isn't stock... not even close. Buy something to make real time scaled corrections, with additional safety parameters you can control, and a three dimensional tuning solution for 3 dimensional problems associated with cars that produce 600+ hp. Just my .02. You spent a ton of time and money and you get what you pay for.

[shmoo]

great write up guys. after reading this, i sent payment for a maftranslator and gm maf. i've already got an safc1