My Positive Exp Tuning AEM EMS S2 on Stock Turbos/Fuel - 313//337

[bboyalan]

I usually keep my more mild tuning updates to our regional board, but I felt that this build has had a pretty cool outcome thus far.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/v/t1.0-9/1474501_10101331074053967_7591747999648909698_n.jp g?oh=9cd45f7bfefe0269909496ec59e31c32&oe=5599D90B&__gda__=1440437196_f96a89ebf043174e8e4f9fc1a1b35b5 2

The owner, Rob, was referred to me through another client/friend in SoCal. After seeing the results with "DuTTch" Mark's VR-4 [560AWHP @23lbs on AEM], he decided to hit me up. I knew that I could not pass up the opportunity to tune a Series 2 from scratch yet alone with a stock turbo and stock fuel car.

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10731024_10101352156788997_2021146789405719551_n.j pg?oh=35488dfeb3413f1c9c31b45f14c0a7d4&oe=55E254FA

Needless to say, I was determined and very much prepared. I was already on my toes from doing multiple GReddy/Link/ECUFlash tunes and such this year with local 3/S, Evo, and DSM cars. The results absolutely surprised me, and I can honestly say that the car drives leaps and bounds better than it did on stock ECU/MAS!

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10501966_10101353781063937_334169533633275650_n.jp g?oh=91bd601683012365098887bdce47dd46&oe=55A02E59

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1378851_10101358154719097_6703961595934759684_n.jp g?oh=0d3d7d867f0de271dc0d9dc47a6f11b5&oe=55A353A7

Full boost by 2.8k, crisp DFCO, lean cruise, and she looks/sounds/performs plain mean! The only downside was that I quickly realized how limited I would be from the stock fuel system - completely tapped out! I was amused to learn that shortly after receiving the car back, he had wasted no time in acquiring GReddy 720cc injectors and a Walbro 400lph FP :) yeeee!!

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/16776_10101357440645107_2707339511009552269_n.jpg? oh=89037cdb396418d2ef3b63ee98d2293a&oe=55AAFD4D
"313AWHP is the final number - for now! This is exactly what I was aiming for on stock turbos, stock injectors, and stock fuel pump. The gains are roughly +38//22 at the same 1bar boost with pre's hollowed and 3SX DP added along with fine-tuning the AEM of course. I am definitely content despite not having more fuel to work with.

For the record, peak KNKV was ~1.09v =]"

The next possibilities include more boost on Pump-91, 91/100 mix, or Pump-E85 regardless of stock or upgraded turbos. Things will continue to get more interesting to say the least though!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebJCUVLfWmM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3yVonbvuF4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_AvxVIRMo8

Stay tuned!
-ALan/BTS

//edit//
2015 UPDATES >> Page 3 (http://www.3sgto.org/turbo-engines-systems/14885-my-positive-exp-tuning-aem-ems-s2-stock-turbos-fuel-313-337-a-3.html#post310904)

[bboyalan]

Oh! I almost forgot my pre-celebratory breakdance 3/S picture :lol:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10698396_10101346839215457_8932951432343887997_n.j pg?oh=aa88b240e4680e7c67c3fc0547d7178c&oe=55A3EABF&__gda__=1436108992_bd6e1573a2dd70cb84a69543fff1efd 8

[mb3000]

Gotta love the S2.

[bboyalan]

Gotta love the S2.
Yess'r! Chris H. and I have been joking back and forth via FB comments about live tuning being the best perk of all; it really is though.

[familyMAN]

Good shit! You know my opinion on AEM S2:D

[bboyalan]

Good shit! You know my opinion on AEM S2:D
HAHA ya damn right I do brotha :cheers2:

BTW! Did you end up going with a Holset over FP? I could have sworn that you ultimately decided on an HX40. The reason I ask is because I miiiight be taking in a local's built 8.5:1 2.0L with the 6-blade HX40. It VD baselined around 350+ on Link v3 lite in SD and needs a complete retune. I was curious to hear your experience and what kind of powerband+boost curve you are/were seeing for comparison.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/s720x720/10557195_10101347485081137_1339552041725484772_n.j pg

The underhood madness of a large turbo 2.0L 4G63T. Break-in has been completed, and a few items will be addressed before the next step, such as FP intake pipe, sealed OCC w/ vac, wiring, etc.

Yes, I can [and just did] derail my own thread LOL! :tongue:

[familyMAN]

I have a 7blade 70lb/min HX40 on the shelf. Still rockin the 14b for now until I gather the final pieces to build the spare block into a long rod 2.4. Just need a 7bolt 2.4 crank and torque plate and it can all go to the machine shop this winter.

[2fnloud]

I can so see myself maxing out my 13G's before stepping up to DR750's. Thanks for sharing.

[familyMAN]

Curious...How much boost for the 350hp on the 2.0 hx40?

[bboyalan]

I can so see myself maxing out my 13G's before stepping up to DR750's. Thanks for sharing.
Very welcome and thanks for commenting! I believe it was Saf from France that pushed 13G's to 430AWHP on Pump-E85 and AEM EMS.

[I just double-checked to confirm and yes, I remembered correctly!]

[bboyalan]

Curious...How much boost for the 350hp on the 2.0 hx40?
I think I included most of the pertinent stuff in the info box. While I did not/have not personally performed a BLT, the owner did note a nasty throttle shaft seal leak on whatever upgraded unit [Ford?] that is on there right now. CF is two or three and around 7* up top:

[click to view full image]
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/s720x720/10696421_10101347487511267_8713463164377709643_n.j pg (https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10696421_10101347487511267_8713463164377709643_n.j pg)

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

good read

[familyMAN]

I think I included most of the pertinent stuff in the info box. While I did not/have not personally performed a BLT, the owner did note a nasty throttle shaft seal leak on whatever upgraded unit [Ford?] that is on there right now. CF is two or three and around 7* up top:

[click to view full image]
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/s720x720/10696421_10101347487511267_8713463164377709643_n.j pg (https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10696421_10101347487511267_8713463164377709643_n.j pg)

Looks like hp was still climbing. 350 seems low for that boost, but if it keeps holding that tq like it looks like it would, HP would be more inline. Those cams are a bit milder than the big hp HX40 guys are running. Timing I think usually ends up around 12-13* up top. Likely some room to grow. The 6blade has run low 9s in a light DSM and 7 blade has done 9.7 in light evo8 (upper 30's boost.)

I'm sure you'll get it set up and rocking!

[bboyalan]

Looks like hp was still climbing. 350 seems low for that boost, but if it keeps holding that tq like it looks like it would, HP would be more inline. Those cams are a bit milder than the big hp HX40 guys are running. Timing I think usually ends up around 12-13* up top. Likely some room to grow. The 6blade has run low 9s in a light DSM and 7 blade has done 9.7 in light evo8 (upper 30's boost.)

I'm sure you'll get it set up and rocking!
Thanks and DERP on my end lol. I meant to say 370 without quite hitting a plateau yet as you observed. That was his log, and I am glad that he aborted; it was leaner than this thread's VR-4! I am anxious to see what numbers can be had with the BEP housing and Pump-91 [for now]. Like you said, I would have targeted those numbers, and it appears it was safely set up for 8* by RL heh.

[bboyalan]

In regard to this VR-4, it sounds like the owner is just getting his AFPR before bringing her back to me. Pump-100 is literally up the street from his residence, so we are most likely going to see what numbers these 9b itty bitties can support. I have to say that I am also surprised by the boost curve with a freed up intake side. It seems to be inline with the results of going blow-through on Dmitri's Stealth.

[2fnloud]

Very welcome and thanks for commenting! I believe it was Saf from France that pushed 13G's to 430AWHP on Pump-E85 and AEM EMS.

[I just double-checked to confirm and yes, I remembered correctly!]

We will have to see how close Flash ECU can get to that. 425ish AWHP could keep me entertained for a lil bit.

[NOMIEZVR4]

I tuned a 99...well not technically tuned but with full bolt-ons/chrome and fixing all minor issues it pulled 314/330 @14psi on 9b's. On the stock MAF

[bboyalan]

I tuned a 99...well not technically tuned but with full bolt-ons/chrome and fixing all minor issues it pulled 314/330 @14psi on 9b's. On the stock MAF

//edit// Big misunderstanding on my end - sorry!** Nomie and I are/have always been coo' :smile-new:

lol not sure what you are getting at as there are MANY factors and variables to consider. For one, not everyone gets to "enjoy" CA Piss Pump-91 [E10] like we do. A '99 is also seven years younger for whatever that counts; I can say this matters having done minor ECU tuning here on Mark's '99 with 40k less miles and somewhat BPU/catless.

ANYWAY, my threads always show gains as VD [or any dyno for that matter] is just a tuning tool. ! I am sure the leaking BISS can account for something too lol... Not trying to make excuses - just saying!

Cliffs: Every car is different, and these are really solid numbers/gains out here among all of the stock/upgraded turbo 3/S I have seen on Pump-91. Regardless of MAS or SD, the average output range tends to be 350-380AWHP.

[NOMIEZVR4]

lol not sure what you are getting at as there are MANY factors and variables to consider. For one, not everyone gets to "enjoy" CA Piss Pump-91 [E10] like we do. A '99 is also seven years younger for whatever that counts; I can say this matters having done minor ECU tuning here on Mark's '99 with 40k less miles and somewhat BPU/catless.

ANYWAY, my threads always show gains as VD [or any dyno for that matter] is just a tuning tool. ! I am sure the leaking BISS can account for something too lol... Not trying to make excuses - just saying!

Cliffs: Every car is different, and these are really solid numbers/gains out here among all of the stock/upgraded turbo 3/S I have seen on Pump-91. Regardless of MAS or SD, the average output range tends to be 350-380AWHP.

Oh don't get me wrong...not trying to take anything away from your thread..! :D Just posted that because someone else posted/hinted towards about what kind of gains would result from a chrome setup...:) You're doing a fine job!

[familyMAN]

VR4 is really nice looking and nice sounding. Now let's see some vid of a 2-step launch instead of posing!;)

[bboyalan]

Oh don't get me wrong...not trying to take anything away from your thread..! :D Just posted that because someone else posted/hinted towards about what kind of gains would result from a chrome setup...:) You're doing a fine job!
Ah, my bad bro haha. That makes sense then =P I mean obviously, we both know what it is capable of doing. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

-sent from my Galaxy S4

[bboyalan]

VR4 is really nice looking and nice sounding. Now let's see some vid of a 2-step launch instead of posing!;)
HAHA! That was actually the original plan man =/ however, she will eventually cut out up top. 22mS ain't no joke =X I promise to film some launches once the fuel upgrades are in and dialed. He might even take her to our local eighth-mile afterward! =]

-sent from my Galaxy S4

[bboyalan]

Oh don't get me wrong...not trying to take anything away from your thread..! :D Just posted that because someone else posted/hinted towards about what kind of gains would result from a chrome setup...:) You're doing a fine job!
Ah, my bad bro haha. That makes sense then =P I mean obviously, we both know what it is capable of doing. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

-sent from my Galaxy S4
Since it was brought up, I figured I could share too hehe :joyous: Granted, 15G's are one class up from 13G's. It is still a stock MAS, Pump-91, flash-tuned car.

[click to view full image]
https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/s720x720/10689847_10101298322987367_8446179459410803141_n.j pg (https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10689847_10101298322987367_8446179459410803141_n.j pg)

Here are the before and after results; 350AWHP//375AWTQ on Pump-91 is pretty nice especially with a HFC installed!

Red line = shop-tuned S-AFC I
Blue line = street-tuned ECU

I also tried a new tweak that squeezed a few more ponies, but I never did any additional runs to support it afterward:
https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t1.0-9/s480x480/10426192_10101299194910027_365818089683194691_n.jp g

I never posted a thread on here or 3Si about that 49k '99 VR-4, BUT I guess I should mention that I completely tuned it with both NB's disabled for reasons out of my hands. She drives like a dream though!

In comparison to this '92 VR-4: I think the 9b's w/ AEM could easily close the 40-wheel gap on ethanol. Pump-91/100 will be an interesting challenge.

[2fnloud]

93 octane FTW

[bboyalan]

2015 UPDATE!!!!

Some of you may have read my other update thread w/ Mark's VR-4 and AEM here:
Pushing Mark's VR-4 w/ BM Billet 19T's - 600AWTQ and Counting! (http://www.3sgto.org/turbo-engines-systems/15369-pushing-marks-vr-4-w-bm-billet-19ts-600awtq-counting.html) <<

Well, Rob's is the other VR-4 w/ AEM that I have been simultaneously juggling lol! This year is off to a great start, and we are going to get a little ambitious by making an attempt to claim a new world 3/S record for highest HP w/ 9b's! If we come short, then we will at least have it for all of Cali/West Coast. The plan is to re-tune on Pump-91, then 91+Meth, and finally/possibly E85+Meth!

The goodies:
https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10947247_10101521045644377_7983733671580598837_n.j pg?oh=1b72da30f9e4a19ab8f8b8cd9f9adf29&oe=55AAEE6C

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11064620_10101547899678677_4977415686318564365_n.j pg?oh=dc2fe93289c6d4866d9bd3ec2a92882f&oe=55A3410F
"Fresh TB's w/ dat MIL.SPEC goodness - thanks April!"

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/19809_10101563186418927_1280012520563542185_n.jpg? oh=b2c06d859a3097d2b99936e0771f9c6b&oe=55E29573
"Walbro 400lph is ready!"

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/11062145_10101583547425307_2504477651110410158_n.j pg?oh=13b9b95c4d043f72ef7fd22100da06ab&oe=55A611D6
Preview of new fuel system, new filters w/ K&N condoms, and my custom, one-off oil catch tank!

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/10999749_10101586090109747_9201419665279073894_n.j pg?oh=03ff36ab77a9d4ecc63ff5b9202aaf67&oe=559B70B2
Ready for "round 2" of AEM tuning!

https://scontent-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11150224_10101587205933627_1395440151357000934_n.j pg?oh=1a7ea855f549cdbf6cc150741a1cfce4&oe=559F5199
"SOLID hot idle @900RPM w/ new fuel setup; Defi 60mm for reference. GReddy/Denso 720cc's w/ AEM EMS Series 2. Progress (Power) is going to be so damn quick and easy lol!"

Preview: First Startup w/ New Fuel Setup on Rob's VR-4 and AEM EMS S2 (https://www.facebook.com/al.sison/videos/10101587199960597/) <<

Once I complete the Pump-91 tuning with more boost, then I will install the NIB AEM v2 progressive WMI kit.

-ALan

[R/T93]

Get that idle down and hit a dyno!

[bboyalan]

Get that idle down and hit a dyno!
At my discretion, I will occasionally tune for a slightly higher (still stable) idle for better OP. VD SAE will be plenty sufficient :courage:

-sent from my Galaxy S4

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I always tune for 900

[bboyalan]

Good news and bad news!

The good news is that she is finally seeing MORE boost with awesome AEM tuning.

The bad news is that the clutch is slipping [in third] like a MOTHERF*CKER!!!!

https://scontent-4.22773.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10985867_10101591257713827_7182765673374798054_n.j pg?oh=4ced9570ffec58bea05c092aa20f1d98&oe=559A93A2

https://scontent-4.22773.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11168496_10101591366650517_8490268728233812832_n.j pg?oh=b60ad4fdaeff70152d9933a5be95abe2&oe=55A8FCB8

https://scontent-4.22773.fna.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xat1/v/t1.0-9/10373838_10101591382618517_8730933488895784414_n.j pg?oh=0c4dffa5ff3770f7a394cf746ab41f51&oe=559B7296

Of course, I was SO BUMMED when it happened because I really wanted to proceed into the E85+Meth tuning phase. I already suggested a SPEC Stage 2+ (full-faced and unsprung) w/ LWFW since this car is not really going to be dragged - yet anyway. I found it amusing (no surprise) that the peashooter 9b's fell off to 13.x lbs. The GReddy/Denso injectors and GReddy PRofec B-spec II are both barely at 50% too. More updates to come once some decisions have been made!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3aWQ-hu0Ug

[bboyalan]

I guess in a funny way, this scenario reminds me of Mark's car lol. Two springs had previously popped out of his SouthBend Stage 4 which led to some unforeseen downtime.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Maybe you know already, but you can add the 2nd gear ratio to the VD software and its still pretty much the same as third if your tune is smooth and turbos aren't laggy.

[bboyalan]

Maybe you know already, but you can add the 2nd gear ratio to the VD software and its still pretty much the same as third if your tune is smooth and turbos aren't laggy.
Cool! It was always a thought, but I never really gave it a go; I will be sure to give that a try today. Tuning our 5-SP can be such a chore with the long a** third hahaha. Thanks for chiming in, Chris! =]

-sent from my Galaxy S4

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

yeah for others to keep in mind is your samples per second are going to dictate how accurate your logs are in lower gears. I wouldn't make major changes based on wideband logging through the stock ecu in 2nd gear. A tune will also need to be a little more conservative than in higher gears as well, so it isn't great for final tuning, but if your tune is way off it can get you a lot closer, a lot safer. Safer on both the engine and public roads.

Defiantly a big advantage to the six speed IMO, especially the MR gears. They only go to about 100 in 3rd, a lot safer, less jaily than 120.

[NOMIEZVR4]

yeah for others to keep in mind is your samples per second are going to dictate how accurate your logs are in lower gears. I wouldn't make major changes based on wideband logging through the stock ecu in 2nd gear. A tune will also need to be a little more conservative than in higher gears as well, so it isn't great for final tuning, but if your tune is way off it can get you a lot closer, a lot safer. Safer on both the engine and public roads.

Defiantly a big advantage to the six speed IMO, especially the MR gears. They only go to about 100 in 3rd, a lot safer, less jaily than 120.

Hey genius what would be the 2nd gear ratio for a JDM geared trans? I've got a strip but its hard to top out 3rd there usually, this will be helpful for VD graphs though..AFR changes and timing I'll keep doing on the open highways

4.11 final drive for the jdm trans, right?

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Hey genius what would be the 2nd gear ratio for a JDM geared trans? I've got a strip but its hard to top out 3rd there usually, this will be helpful for VD graphs though..AFR changes and timing I'll keep doing on the open highways

4.11 final drive for the jdm trans, right?

should be 4.154 final, 1.904 2nd gear according to this source:

Transmission: Gear Ratios - 3000GT/Stealth Wiki (http://www.3swiki.org/Transmission:_Gear_Ratios)

FYI, 2nd on the JDM six will go by so fast that the logging won't be super useful.

[bboyalan]

I will start a new thread soon and re-host images again, BUT I just wanted to give a final update here.

370AWTQ VD SAE w/ stock 9b peashooter turbos @18psi on Pump-E85 lol! The car is a total trip... makes me laugh, TBH! AND they are still holding 14psi by 5.5k!

Here is a preview until I compile/edit more coverage:
Preview: Rob's VR-4 w/ stock turbos @14psi on Pump-E85 and AEM EMS S2 (https://www.facebook.com/al.sison/videos/10101723219416517/) <<

Initial, conservative tune:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/AzNFLiPBoiPiNoY/3kGT/Rob_92VR-4/Rob_14psi_E85_v1_zpsj7z7mxud.png
(This was in second too, Chris =P)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/AzNFLiPBoiPiNoY/3kGT/Rob_92VR-4/20150724_115946_RichtoneHDR_resized_BTS_zpspcfk7cf 2.png

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/AzNFLiPBoiPiNoY/3kGT/Rob_92VR-4/20150724_144251_RichtoneHDR_resized_BTS_zpsr9nzlkt x.png

[new93TT]

love the thread, nice numbers with the stock turbo's, who has put down the most hp with the stock turbos?

[R/T93]

Austin's green TT made 373/472 on a Mustang dyno then trapped 124 mph.

[bboyalan]

I believe that someone in Europe or Canada (cannot remember atm) made a bit more on E85+Meth, so that is partly why we will be using the same fuel very soon.

The car is cooling off right now, but she is currently putting down 330//380 VD SAE on Pump-85. I am trying to squeeze another 10-20 to be content lolol.

-sent from my Galaxy S4

//edit// Second Gear** for now w/ third soon!

[fastbikes76]

My 9b's spiked at 24psi and held 12-13at redline on a 10:1 engine. Ran them like that for 18months and they were still sweet when I pulled them off.

:)


Sent from my dog n bone

[KeithMac]

I miss my 9b spool!..

[bboyalan]

I miss my 9b spool!..
Haha no kidding! This car is a trip. Check this out!

Red and blue are second gear pulls; green is the final third gear pull.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/AzNFLiPBoiPiNoY/3kGT/Rob_92VR-4/Rob_18psi_E85_v1.5_330whp_380wtq_zpsd7xtblvy.png
"SD's stock turbo 3/S beast! est. 330AWHP VD SAE (346 U/C) @1bar and 380AWTQ VD SAE (390 U/C) @1.2bar! Full support, AEM EMS Series 2, and Pump-E85. Talk about insta-spool and torque lol!"

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/AzNFLiPBoiPiNoY/3kGT/Rob_92VR-4/2-Step_ALS_ethanol_resized_BTS_zpspape6jkp.png
"Spittin' flames during a 2-Step w/ Anti-Lag (AEM EMS Series 2) on Pump-E85. SOOOO loud... "

[new93TT]

So this next graph is showing less hp an tq??? why?