Engine Dilema...

[JasonY]

Thats just the shipping. They are 225 a barrel w/o shipping.

Jason

[wingnut]

Thats just the shipping. They are 225 a barrel w/o shipping.

Jason

Is that shipping to a residence?

I seem to recall shipping to a business being much less...

[UTRacerX9]

I'm amazed the poll results are so close. Having a bigger engine displacement beats an upgraded 72 any day of the week IMO. Can only take a 72 just so far, the 74 can get to same levels much easier.

[AdamVR4]

Block and girdle need to be clearanced. Its 1550 for machining and balancing the crank.

3rd engine option im kicking around is a budget 72 block, just throw good pistons in my stock engine, reuse crank and rods. Feel it out at 3L and if anything lets go, its under the piston and wont destroy my heads or turbos.

Jason

How do you figure? Spinning a bearing puts metal through your turbos and cams.

I was 100% sure I had decided on this: built 72/74 stroker with stock heads(rebuilt to new spec of course)/stock cams for my build, but I've been balking at the thought of dumping that kind of cash lately. It's very unlike the way I've built my car to this point so it's more of a mental hurdle than anything else. That and I have no f'ing idea what kind of income taxes we'll be paying this year Regardless, I'm putting off shipping my spare block to Ray until after I'm done building my car for the 2011 TX Gathering.

Can someone clarify whether or not Ray turns down the mains on the 74 crank? If he does, that means a used crank is actually pretty desirable. To build the stage 3 block, you'd want a new OEM 6G72 crank no matter what IMO.

But, as far as I can tell, if you get a new crank through Pampena, here's how the Stage III 6G72 and the 6G72 3.5L Stroker compare:

Total Cost: $4500 vs $6500
New OEM Crank: same cost
Balancing: Undoubtedly a couple hundred dollars more for the stroker
Block clearancing / Crank Machining: $900 extra for the stroker
Wrist pins, rods and pistons... Wash

So if the shit hit the fan, the difference in cost between the set-ups comes down to the time that goes into a new crank. If someone can break down how much of the machining cost is in the crank vs the block, that would help.

If you can find a usable used crank, that cost difference almost vanishes.

So Jason, if you find a crank, let me know! LOL

[JasonY]

Yeah, I was referring to snapping a rod since the stockers while strong seem to have a poor fatigue life.

After a bit of soul searching and talking with a friend of mine, I'm gonna do the 3.5 with dr3 heads but rock the stock cams to save 2k on springs/cams/cam gears to degree the cams correctly.

Should be an absolute riot on 93 and meth with the potential for a whole lot more than any td04 can offer even if I make near the same power as a dr750 car most of the time.

Jason

[AdamVR4]

Yeah, I was referring to snapping a rod since the stockers while strong seem to have a poor fatigue life.

After a bit of soul searching and talking with a friend of mine, I'm gonna do the 3.5 with dr3 heads but rock the stock cams to save 2k on springs/cams/cam gears to degree the cams correctly.

Should be an absolute riot on 93 and meth with the potential for a whole lot more than any td04 can offer even if I make near the same power as a dr750 car most of the time.

Jason

If you're worried about the cost of a failure, why even bother with the stage 3 heads? My current plan is to have Ray port my heads to "DR stage II"-ish equivalent and pin them... But buying the cores through him for $350 puts me at a total of $2450 for just the heads. What are the pinned stage 3's going to cost you?

[futurevr4man]

lol at soul searching. i hope it runs as expected!!

[TurboSinceBirth]

How do you figure? Spinning a bearing puts metal through your turbos and cams.

I was 100% sure I had decided on this: built 72/74 stroker with stock heads(rebuilt to new spec of course)/stock cams for my build, but I've been balking at the thought of dumping that kind of cash lately. It's very unlike the way I've built my car to this point so it's more of a mental hurdle than anything else. That and I have no f'ing idea what kind of income taxes we'll be paying this year Regardless, I'm putting off shipping my spare block to Ray until after I'm done building my car for the 2011 TX Gathering.

Can someone clarify whether or not Ray turns down the mains on the 74 crank? If he does, that means a used crank is actually pretty desirable. To build the stage 3 block, you'd want a new OEM 6G72 crank no matter what IMO.

But, as far as I can tell, if you get a new crank through Pampena, here's how the Stage III 6G72 and the 6G72 3.5L Stroker compare:

Total Cost: $4500 vs $6500
New OEM Crank: same cost
Balancing: Undoubtedly a couple hundred dollars more for the stroker
Block clearancing / Crank Machining: $900 extra for the stroker
Wrist pins, rods and pistons... Wash

So if the shit hit the fan, the difference in cost between the set-ups comes down to the time that goes into a new crank. If someone can break down how much of the machining cost is in the crank vs the block, that would help.

If you can find a usable used crank, that cost difference almost vanishes.

So Jason, if you find a crank, let me know! LOL

When I talked to Ray he didn't recommend a new crank over used because they all come out of N/A motors so you're not likely to get one abused. Magnaflux it though. Mine came out of a Debonaire. I don't think all Monteros have forged cranks either but I know the Debonaire is. He does turn down the rod journals. That's why you can fit 72 rods on there. Without turning down the mains either it would be too big to fit between the 72 block and main girdle. There's roughly $3k in cleaning the block and crank, boring out the cylinders, setting clearances, file fitting the rings(I went for a 0.015" top 0.018" 2nd Ray recommended; when he refreshed his stroker with new bearings and rings he went 0.018" top and 0.020" 2nd), grinding part of the crank, block, and main girdle(this is so it doesn't hit and is separate from the crank work itself but is easy to do with a hand grinder), and assembling everything. Now I'm not saying you should do it yourself and have a machine shop do the work on the block. I already did that once and wasn't referred to a good local machine shop so it cost me a block, but you can do quite a bit of it yourself. Just make sure everything is clean. The dirtiest part for me was grinding everything so the internals would clear the extra stroke. A die grinder would have been a much better option that a grinder because some spots were really tight. You'd get a much better looking job with the die grinder too.

[familyMAN]

After a bit of soul searching and talking with a friend of mine, I'm gonna do the 3.5 with dr3 heads but rock the stock cams to save 2k on springs/cams/cam gears to degree the cams correctly.

Getting cam gears and degreeing the stock cams is still ideal. Since you'll have a little taken off the heads to ensure flatness and finish, your stock cams won't be zeroed perfectly anymore.

[JasonY]

Not risking a slipped gear if I don't have to. The UR are the only ones I trust and I'm not gonna spend 800 bucks on them.

Oh and Adam, the reason I was concerned about failure is I've had two engines desintegrate w/o a single logged count of knock. If I get rays 3.5 I'm not concerned about random failure.

Jason