Stolen Valor Act struck down by congress

[IPD]

you're really not doing harm to veyron/ferrari owners, nor are you really injuring those who make 500k per year--by virtue of what you just said.

by claiming valor, you are ipso facto serving as a representative of our armed forces. you aren't jeopardizing the collective owners of high-dollar sports cars....because there is no grouping there. even more so, you aren't jeopardizing anything with a lie about a car--because you're not going to get free shit from people just because you lie about some bullshit like that (although it might help you score with a bar slut or something).

i see these as quite different because anyone can join the military--just as anyone can buy a super expensive car (if you finance it or something). you can lie about either--and that's really no problem. it's the lie about valor where it crosses the line. false claims of valor cheapen the meaning of it for those who have legitimately laid down their lives (literally) to earn valor.

it's the damage to the prestige and esteem of those who have served honorably that makes the false-pretense illegal, in my mind.

[NickS VR4]

So do civilian awards count? What if I claimed the presidential medal of freedom?

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[BaadVR4]

It is unlikely we will get much further than "agree to disagree". We have different perspectives of the meaning of valor. And we have very different perspectives of how a false claim of having earned the Medal of Honor harms an entire class of people.

I served 21 1/2 years in the Navy. I never earned a medal for personal valor. I have known some who have. The very essence of their acts were total self sacrifice. Someone else lived because they chose to die for him/her. Someone else they might not even have known.

To lie about personal medals awarded for valor is exactly the opposite; it is an act of cowardly total self absorption. Claiming to be a hero when you are not harms everyone who has ever acted truly heroically. And, since it bestows rep and status, it is likely to result in the liar being hired/promoted/etc/etc/etc ahead of someone who remains honest.

We understand each others' position and agree each of us has the right to speak our position. Now suppose you and I are both under consideration for a position with significantly more salary/benefits/prestige/etc. Our superiors ask us to submit a letter outlining why we should be selected. In my letter, I claim to have been awarded several military and civil medals for a variety of heroic acts. The claims are all false, but undetected as false. If discovered, like the AGT case, I will likely be fired in disgrace and subject to a variety of social/employment sanctions. But, if undetected, I enjoy the fruits of my lies. Your position is my lies are protected free speech and "no harm/no foul" since you did not lose your job, only a POSSIBLE promotion. My position is my lies have harmed you a great deal, both personally and financially, to the extent that civil and criminal sanctions are not just warranted but required. I don't disagree with your right to think/speak/act however you wish. I disagree you have the right to cause me harm in pursuit of whatever you want to do. And I disagree on what constitutes "harm".

So do civilian awards count? What if I claimed the presidential medal of freedom?

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[NickS VR4]

And I believe that is no different than lying on a resume. It is up to the employer to verify these claims. Perhaps a better system for individuals to verify awards like this. A public online registry maybe in which you can call someone out on their false claims. To me that would be the best solution. One that anyone can access with a smartphone and a name.

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