Suggestions to complement my Supercharger upgrade

[ibsorgn]

just be sure to log everything and be especially careful in the mid rpm's because the stock fuel map is kinda lean there for boost...but seriously a proper tuning setup is necessary on a supercharger build if you plan on keeping this car on the road

When I was at Blown3000's stage of mod, only at the upper RPMs were lean AFs noted. Running a FMU, which I believe he is doing presently, tends to have its limits, and if the injectors are weak the FMU will magnify that weakness. Not really much you can do with tuning unless you move to some technology that will allow you to modify timing and fuel. Blown, if after you get your exhaust system in and you can't keep those AFs in the low 12s at the upper rpms with full boost you got to add more fuel. Probably the easiest fix would be to add a WMI system (Water methanol or alcohol injection. Olde skool I know, but it works. The WMI will give you added benefits. Spraying just in front of the throttle body will cool the SC and charge and will act as a intercooler. Second adding alcohol or methanol will effectively raise the octane level so that detonation (knock) will not be a problem. Third, should you ever increase your boost levels (to a limit) you will be set. Fourth the fluid will help seal the rotors and you will gain some of that lost roots efficiency.
Congradulations, shortly you will begin living in the same world that "The Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly" lives in (one fix leads to another issue who's fix lead to another issue and so on and so on....

[3000gttom]

for sure, it would be easiest to get a flashable ecu to start with

and after you have a good tune is when you want to get into wmi so that you can cool the supercharger to have better efficiency at high rpm's

but the only way to have a safe sc build for daily use is a flashable or standalone ecu

[Blown3000]

for sure, it would be easiest to get a flashable ecu to start with

and after you have a good tune is when you want to get into wmi so that you can cool the supercharger to have better efficiency at high rpm's

but the only way to have a safe sc build for daily use is a flashable or standalone ecu

What kind of money you talking about? Never thought that I had an unsafe supercharger build, can you explain a little more about that point? BTW, are you running a supercharger?

Installed my headers and had my local muffler shop build a flow-through exhaust system based on a flowmaster 40 1into2 and used those little 12" glass shorties as resonators. Sound is very throaty. I.B., you were right the motor runs lean at the higher rpms under full boost. Motor feels more loose and free with the exhaust and has more power at all rpms. Boy, under full boost the exhaust sounds like the outlet of a leaf blower! Can definitely hear that air being blown through the exhaust pipes. I.B., What did you do for tuning on your build as I believe that your system and mine are pretty much alike?

[3000gttom]

once under boost, the ecu in the stock map want it to be at 13.1 afr in the lower rpm's with high load, and then richens up to 10.7 afr at high rpm

your fmu will add fuel pressure to make that 13.1 spot richer but up top it will be extremely rich which is not good for the motor

if you are leaning out up top its because the injectors cant handle the increased flow from the higher pressure which is bad for the injectors, and if one fails entirely then you could have big problems

you cant really take shortcuts in your fueling system and have a car that is reliable...the cost to switch to a flashable would depend on which year your car is, but the ability to tune properly should be a top priority

you may not need injector upgrades once you tune it out either

edit: i'm not supercharged, not would i ever attempt to be without proper tuning

[Blown3000]

you cant really take shortcuts in your fueling system and have a car that is reliable...the cost to switch to a flashable would depend on which year your car is, but the ability to tune properly should be a top priority

I own a 95 3000GT SL

[3000gttom]

you'd need an ecu, a conversion harness, and tactrix cable at least, maybe more

its not cheap but it, maybe $1k or more, but its much safer

im not an expert on converting your motor to the 98-99 electronics but there are a lot of people on the board that can help give you a better idea of what is involved

[ibsorgn]

The proper solution to your fuel needs is a fuel system upgrade. Although the FMU is a solution, it demands that the injectors must work to their total capacity. Should any weakness develop (injectors, fuel pump, fuel regulator etc) lean conditions will occur.
With the WMI your fueling issues are addressed but it is more of a patch than a permanent fix. However don't think that it is a waste of money because WMI provides numerous benefits as I outlined in an earlier post. The only draw back is that you must have the "boost juice" available when you put your foot to the floor. In other words you have to insure that your reservoir has fluid in it.
Please note that the additional stress that the FMU will put on the injectors and fuel pump will lead to poor operation and eventually cause failure.

With the above in mind the permanent solution is upgrade to a higher capacity fuel pump, larger volume injectors and a adjustable fuel regulator. With the larger injectors you will have to have a ECU that can control them. Also, to take advantage of your forced induction motor, appropriate timing maps would be in order which will enhance the performance of its operation.

A standalone ECU as suggested by 3000gttom would be a solution however the cost would be quite high and the work would be extensive, however I guess extensive is a relative term.

For an ECU solution I would recommend moving to a 1st gen TT ECU and with a couple of wiring changes, mostly disconnections, and the addition of a thermal sensor to control the radiator fans will give the ability to control TT 360 injectors and run TT fuel and timing maps. Note: You would not have to change the wiring harness.

I disagree with 3000gttom that you could stay with the stock injectors because they will simply not flow the volumes needed to sufficiently fuel the motor.

Man I'm going on and on. I'll stop here as there is plenty to chew on. Remember one thing, if your AFs are showing normal and you don't hear knocking or your plugs don't show signs of detonation your safe. If you go lean and/or you get detonation get your foot off the accelerator. I ran with your configuration (w/WMA) for well over a year before I upgraded the Fuel and ECU without any adverse effects.

[3000gttom]

^^^ he's the one to listen to about the injectors (i was just speculating from how the stock ecu adds a ton of fuel up top vs. a tuned ecu that would stay at a normal afr)

if your going to convert ecu's its best to go 99 since it has pretty much any feature you'll find on a standalone, and you have the option to just use a n/a 99 ecu (cheaper) since you have no bcs to worry about

the work needed to do a standalone style tune is a lot but you are supercharging a motor that was not tuned for a supercharger, efi motors have their benefits and drawbacks, these are not like muscle cars where you would adjust the carburetor a little, take a couple degrees off the base timing on the distributor and be done, these motors take advantage of changing timing and fuel in all situations which helps a lot but makes life harder for modders

my opinion is that if you've come this far, dont skimp out on the core factors of making the motor run properly

[Blown3000]

I installed the Water Alcohol injection and it works beautifully. Set the boost switch to trigger the WA injection at the earilest sign of boost maybe 1 to 1 1/2 psi. I'm using window washer fluid (WWF) rated at -20 degrees and add about a 1/3 of a gallon of alcohol to each gallon of WWF. According to my calculations that should be about a 50/50 mix. You can definitely smell the alcohol burning. I hear no knock and AFs call to under 12 when injecting. Thanks I.B.
Now, just for fun I would like to compare costs of fuel upgrades between using a 1st gen ECU and injector setup to what 3000gttom suggested (AEM and/or 99 flashable ecu and injector upgrade). Oh, how difficult is it to do the upgrade and did you do the upgrade yourself?

[ibsorgn]

Now, just for fun I would like to compare costs of fuel upgrades between using a 1st gen ECU and injector setup to what 3000gttom suggested (AEM and/or 99 flashable ecu and injector upgrade). Oh, how difficult is it to do the upgrade and did you do the upgrade yourself?

I can only talk intelligently about what I did and what were the costs. My fuel and ECU upgrades revolved around the use of a 1st Gen TT ECU. I did this for several reasons, 1) It did not involve a wiring harness change, 2) A TT ECU is programmed with sufficient timing and fuel maps to support my forced induction needs, 3) Would drive larger injectors allowing the removal of the FMU, 4) IMHO, Arguably the simplest, easiest, and most cost effective way to support a supercharged setup. The second piece of the puzzle relates to fuel hardware. There I chose TT injectors, an Eclipse GST fuel pump, 6 ohm resistors and a adjustable fuel regulator. Because the 1st gen ECU does not control the radiator fans I had to setup a thermo control to operate the fans. I chose a Derale thermo fan controller.
I can't remember the exact prices I paid for this hardware but the number should be relatively close.

TT ECU (used) - $200 put new caps in it just in case!
TT Injectors (used) - $50 Rebuild cost $90
Resistors - $8
Fuel pump - $60
Fuel regulator - $45
Derale - $30
Miscellaneous - $20

Total - $495

I took a brief look at a AEM Series 2 at $1500+ and another grand to have it tuned and programmed. I quickly lost interest but it is probably the way to go if your a serious tuner. I'm not!

I do have to admit that I also purchased a APEXI NEO (On sale for $175) when I was still operating under the FMU (8psi of boost) because I falsely thought that between the NEO and the FMU I could control the fuel needs of the motor. Wrong! I found that when you lie too much to the ECU about air flow you will cause the timing to become so far out of whack that you can harm the engine not to mention loose performance. I discovered that the ECU determines LOAD based on air flow and LOAD and RPM determines timing. Lying about air flow will ultimately distort timing.

I employ my NEO but mostly for low throttle operation and primarily for fuel economy. I pretty much leave high throttle operation untouched as the ECU does a very good job with fuel needs. Maybe a little richer than I like but richer is safer.

BTW, I still use my WAI.