AEM V1 vs Flash ECU? Which should I have?

[Greg E]

I get more satisfaction doing things the hard way

Want to take over the ECU disassembly for me?


Pointless psychological debate aside, I'll be honest in that tuning the stock ECU has It's own learning curve to over come. If it really was as brainless as tuning an ARC2, I wouldn't be making any $$ on tuning customer cars.

In terms of how much better it works is just an opinion debate. I don't see the stock ECU breaking any new HP records but I do see it becoming more popular once more features become released. About the only serious advantages the stock ECU holds over the AEM are cost and OBD2 compatibility.

I will still tease Ray about how much easier my car starts over his though.

[amicus]

Have a Ver 1 AEM. Seems pretty complex but I been told it offers the most options and can tune to the edge if you know what your doing. (I don't... Tuning is my last obstacle with these cars).

I keep hearing how nice the flashed ECUs are and I'm wondering what I would loose if anything by getting one and selling the AEM. I'm thinking it would be easier to tune?

I'm open to ideas.

I think it depends on your motivation. There's a learning curve with either. I bought a series 1 and spent about a month studying the guides. They're not that great but I kept going back and forth until they started to make sense. I read everything I could find on the various DSM forums. For me it was a challenge rather than an obstacle and I like the results I got. I have a "race it" map as well as a "road trip" map that gets ~29mpg @ 75mph running ~15.5 to 15.7 AFR. I made a map for emergencies that will run on 87 Octane. I also have a "no start" map for parking in dubious areas. Other people have driven it and had no idea it had an EMS. 98% of the time it starts like stock. Sometimes when it's been driven hard and restarted after a short stop it will take 2-3 seconds to start. I'm working on why that happens. I love the flexibility of it. One thing I learned is the more it can do the more complex it will become.
I haven't had any experience with flash tuning. I would assume the theory and learning curve is about the same. You have to learn what tables exist, where they are, what they do, and how to flash them. I think it's still a little experimental so I'm waiting until it's a bit more functional. I'm curious to learn how to flash. If you live in a state that is tough on emissions I'd go for the flash tune.

If you don't want to actually learn to tune yourself then I'd base the decision on how close I was to someone who could help when things go wrong, or when you decide to get another upgrade....and there's no doubt you will get that urge.

Good luck which ever way you go.

[niterydr]

Go to any vendor on here or hit up any shop with an AWD dyno. They charge $150 an hour. If all they give you is a WOT tune, then you need to find another tuner. There's idle, cruising, decel, accel, part-throttle, cruise, A/C, cold start, hot start, knock table, multiple fail safes, and I'm sure as you know the list goes on and on. Sure you can charge a few hundred dollars to tune a car but it won't include everything mentioned above. If you want a stock running car with a standalone that makes good power you have to pay well for a full tune. It's not worth it imo when there are easier solutions out there like the flashed ECU. For now there aren't too many compromises using the stock ECU.

My out of the box tunes at my shop were $750 complete per fuel type. 15% of the time spent tuning is on peak power, the rest is everything else. Now that I don't have a chassis dyno I charge a nominal fee and then the customer pays dyno time at whichever vendors dyno we are working with. I just never realized people were actually paying $1200+ for tunes, customers would scoff at me quoting $750....

The flashable ECU is a great alternative and is new and exciting. What makes it really nice is the mostly grassroots approach to unlocking the ECU and sharing with the public. That is one of the main reasons it is so popular in the EVO and Subaru communities, people were working on that capability from Day one and sharing results.

[Intropy]

Don't cut corners now - get that thing on a brake dyno for a professional tune. There's no substitute.

With that in mind, it's more about what your tuner can work with than anything. While you might find someone that can use and tune your flash ECU, you'll probably have better luck with the AEM.

[markoverclock]

The biggest turn-off I had with the AEM EMS was the long cranking times for our cars. I prefer to have my car start under 1 second with flash ECU.

I actually prefer long cranking times, lol. IT helps build oil pressure and prevents "dry scuffing" Im also gonna make an electric version of a preluber for my car to prevent it.

[BlackStealth]

I recall one day filling up at the gas station and I cranked for 8 seconds and no go. Before I had the chance for a second attempt someone approached me and asked if I needed help pushing the car. Apparently someone thought my AEM EMS equipped car was not functioning well. It was a luck of the draw when cranking the AEM EMS, sometimes it starts in 2 seconds, sometimes longer. After learning "statsync" was the root cause of the long starts (statsync couldn't get a lock), I went back to the stock ECU+piggyback for fast starts. Now that I have switched to a flashECU, I sold the piggyback and couldn't be any happier.

[Intropy]

Can you use AEMTuner and AEMData with the v1? I love standalones, but I'd rather run a flashed ECU than use AEMPro and AEMLog... *shudder*.

[niterydr]

Can you use AEMTuner and AEMData with the v1? I love standalones, but I'd rather run a flashed ECU than use AEMPro and AEMLog... *shudder*.

I've opened up V1 maps in Tuner, haven't messed with logs in Data yet.
Call me old school, but I LIKE Pro and Log.

[markoverclock]

I recall one day filling up at the gas station and I cranked for 8 seconds and no go. Before I had the chance for a second attempt someone approached me and asked if I needed help pushing the car. Apparently someone thought my AEM EMS equipped car was not functioning well. It was a luck of the draw when cranking the AEM EMS, sometimes it starts in 2 seconds, sometimes longer. After learning "statsync" was the root cause of the long starts (statsync couldn't get a lock), I went back to the stock ECU+piggyback for fast starts. Now that I have switched to a flashECU, I sold the piggyback and couldn't be any happier.

ive never had a long crank time with my aem, less than 2 seconds always. usually only 1 second and run.

[Intropy]

I've opened up V1 maps in Tuner, haven't messed with logs in Data yet.
Call me old school, but I LIKE Pro and Log.

I can forgive AEMPro since it's basically the same thing only with a cringe-worthy Windows-95-esque interface. Though I can't do without workspaces now.

But AEMLog is flaming pile of crap compared to AEMData. When the entire point of a program is to present and analyze data, the UI makes a huge difference.

What can a AEM do vs a flashed ECU not do?

I would resist the urge to reduce the differences to a bullet-point list. But if you must, there are some things the stock ECU can likely never do, such as on-board logging, real O2 feedback (not open/closed loop), P&H and staged injection (you mentioned meth), real boost control, etc. Everything else is a grey area to me. Obviously the stock ECU does things like knock control, accel fuel, DFCO, etc. How configurable these are compared to the AEM is something you'd have to ask Greg or someone else in the know.

If tuning an EMS is 'hard' and tuning the flash ECU is 'easy', all that really means is that your car is reasonably close to stock. If I ran a flashed ECU on my car (not possible without speed density, but hypothetically speaking) I would have to do just as much tuning in either case.