I want this plenum... anyone know who made it?

**kywhitelightning** · 04-09-2014, 06:44 PM

Great work fastfalcon!!!

I still believe until you ditch TD04 hotsides, your limitation is the turbochargers. Hopping up parts that already outflow the bottleneck of the system should net you little to no gain at all in TD04 land. Nomiez pretty much quoted that from his post. Ninja's use of stock parts and his power level simply reinforces that fact. TD05 and larger setups should see some improvement from this type of mod but, that'll depend largely on the level of power being achieved already. A simple pre-TB map reading compared to a post TB map reading will tell you if the TB is holding any power back in the form of elevated pre-TB pressure. Even then, all you're really doing is making the turbo work harder to make the power it is going to make anyway.

Jeff

**sergechronos** · 04-09-2014, 07:23 PM

I think that is a bit much to presume that there will be little or no gain on TD04s. An Evo picking up 5-15hp with a single TD05 stock turbo (which flows about 500cfm IIRC) with even just 2 9Bs (285cfm each, total of over 500cfm) is likely an apt comparison, and upping turbo size will amplify that for either platform I feel.

Is it the best expenditure of $500 in terms of hp/$? Probably not (and almost certainly not for TD04), but just because power has been made with stock parts doesn't mean that it's the best way to make the power. The forced induction aspect will cover up a lot of flaws in design, but improving those flaws can still net gains. I do think that a preTB vs post TB map reading would tell the story, but I can't imagine that trying to squeeze 500cfm through a 2.4" opening is as good for performance as a 2.75" or 3" opening. I think that we experience something similar to the issue that they had with upgraded TB and stock manifold when we run FMIC and have a 3" charge pipe trying to push through a 60mm opening. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a change in boost from upsizing the TB and manifold, especially for larger turbos.

In truth, there's just no way to know until it is tried and tested and compared with a stock intake manifold and TB combo. Larger frame turbos will likely see far greater benefit being able to be run out farther in the RPM range and still be efficient, but that also needs back to back testing to verify.

**kywhitelightning** · 04-09-2014, 10:00 PM

Here is the basis of my presumption. How much power can the biggest TD04's make? So far, upper 600's. Put bigger turbos on there and bam more power can be achieved with everything else being the same. Ninja is doing it and I'm sure there are others. My point is the TD04 turbo ceiling is it. Once it's hit, you can change everything else and that ceiling will still be there netting you the same power level you had before.

What this will do is hopefully lower pre-TB pressure and not work the turbos as hard to make the same power but, manifold pressure will still be set, on a pushed setup, by exhaust reversion in TD04 land. I'm about to prove that by going from 11 blade unclipped turbines to 9 blade clipped turbines. There is a 3psi difference between my manifold and a map sensor I placed before both the MAF and the TB. The MAF has a screen in it still so that is little restriction and of coarse the small TB is a second restriction. My setup was pushed pretty hard before and will be pushed again.

Please don't let my comments detract from doing this mod as I do feel it has a place in the 3S world just not with TD04's.

Jeff

**fastfalcon94** · 04-09-2014, 10:04 PM

Well I hope after all this work it helps me:/ I don't have a whole lot of money into the plenum itself, but other stuff I have to modify because of it is starting to add up.

$50 TB flange
$4 TB gasket
$70 on 3sx plenum spacer w/ gaskets that I may or may not use
$150 TB
$90 IAC block
$30 na lower plenum
$15 in misc bungs
Metal, welding is kind of free, I told my buddy I would buff part of his truck and fluid film it

I'll also will have some money in battery relocation. Still haven't figured out what box/cable I'm running. I have this nasty whine in my speakers and I think it's because of all the power wire/amp rca cables running near each other. So it would be cool to have the battery in the back right next to both amps and my fuel pump. It would also give me some more room in the engine bay for my future catch can project.

I'll hang onto the polished TB rebuilt by April and the polished TT plenum for now. But if I'm happy with my intake I could recoup some money selling it.

I modified the TB tonight. I need to make sure pedal travel matches closed/open on the throttle plate and weld the throttle cable bracket in the right spot.

**sergechronos** · 04-09-2014, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by kywhitelightning

Here is the basis of my presumption. How much power can the biggest TD04's make? So far, upper 600's. Put bigger turbos on there and bam more power can be achieved with everything else being the same. Ninja is doing it and I'm sure there are others. My point is the TD04 turbo ceiling is it. Once it's hit, you can change everything else and that ceiling will still be there netting you the same power level you had before.

What this will do is hopefully lower pre-TB pressure and not work the turbos as hard to make the same power but, manifold pressure will still be set, on a pushed setup, by exhaust reversion in TD04 land. I'm about to prove that by going from 11 blade unclipped turbines to 9 blade clipped turbines. There is a 3psi difference between my manifold and a map sensor I placed before both the MAF and the TB. The MAF has a screen in it still so that is little restriction and of coarse the small TB is a second restriction. My setup was pushed pretty hard before and will be pushed again.

Please don't let my comments detract from doing this mod as I do feel it has a place in the 3S world just not with TD04's.

Jeff

I see what you're saying now and I apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you. I had assumed (my fault) that you meant it was totally worthless to do because you could just go with bigger frame turbos and make more power.

And I agree for guys at the very edge of td04 power it likely won't make a difference on way or the other, but it may help those who don't have their car on the razors edge and/or make up for shortcomings in other areas maybe.
At any rate, do you think for guys with L or HL wheels that are better up top might see more from it (assuming of course that they're not at the edge) through out the RPM range? My thinking on this, in this situation, is that by reducing restrictions and improved breathing at the top end that it might help combat how power nose dives at 5-5500 for most TD04.

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**fastfalcon94** · 04-09-2014, 10:59 PM

I think for now I'm just going to toss my stock plenum and TB back on. That way the manifold can be welded up and I'll be able to drive my car. Then I'll finish tuning it, then swap out the manifold so that's the only variable I change. Maybe I'll use a lawnmower battery or something so I won't force myself into relocating the battery just yet. I'll make a new tuning thread when the time comes.

**TurboSinceBirth** · 04-12-2014, 01:08 AM

If you guys want a bigger throttle body to run with your upgraded manifolds check out an aftermarket 2G one. I knew they were bolt-on for the longest time but never picked one up. The 2nd gen DSMs share all of the same sensors so it's a direct swap. I bought a 70mm ID S90 throttle body which will be fine for the majority of aftermarket FMICs. They use a 2.75" intercooler pipe. When I upgrade to a bigger intake manifold I'll get a 75mm ID throttle body for 3" intercooler piping. No sense in going bigger than the pipes.

Fits the stock intake manifold and the throttle plate even clears the small stock opening.

VD numbers can be compared against stock, S90 bolted on, S90 with the inlet lip ported, and maybe with it extrude honed. What I like about it is the provisions for the stock TPS, IAC, and even a BISS screw. It should give a stock like idle and throttle response. The only thing missing is a dashpot but the throttle plate may not slam shut too hard. If you guys want to use a DSM throttle body with an aftermarket intake manifold you'll need a flange to weld on. The Evo 8/9 is a 71mm ID which would work well for 2.75" intercooler piping. It would have to be ported out for a bigger throttle body. Xcessive offers the Evo flange.

Online Store - Xcessive Manufacturing

**NOMIEZVR4** · 04-13-2014, 12:33 AM

Well..thanks for posting that. Never knew there was an upgraded tb bolt on available for our cars which retain sensors and all. Definitely makes the intake manifold swap more tempting now...

**stealthee** · 04-13-2014, 07:34 PM

You bring up the lack of a dashpot. Even the NA MTX's came with dashpots. When I put the DOHC TB on my car it came off an ATX car so there was no dashpot and I have had no ill effects due to it. I am not sure if TT's would suffer any real issues without one.