Pre-Turbo Meth Injection

[mb3000]

Or even within a closer vicinity to the turbos.

Discuss!

[green-lantern]

Bad idea, even water particles into a turbo wheel spinning at 35K will cause damage. From everything I have read anyway.

[DocWalt]

If you can get the meth fully vaporized before going into the turbo it's ok. Be careful though, like green-lantern said, droplets of meth/water hitting compressor blades spinning at 100k is going to do a lot of damage. Same reason they didn't launch the shuttle when it was cloudy Besides, the turbo is still going to do a good job of heating the air right back up.

[futurevr4man]

bad idea all around

[green-lantern]

This was talked about on the other site and I don't like to point someone there but it was a pretty in depth thread. It was in the advanced area. I don't know if they still have that area or not but you might be able to dig that thread up.

[mb3000]

Not something I would ever do, but a good conversation starter. It seems that spraying 100% meth about 1" from the compressor yields the "safest" results. Nozzle has to be aimed directly at the nut, with a .75 or .1 GPH nozzle. Don't get it wrong or else...



I'm more interested in post turbo spraying, say a couple inches away from the outlet on both turbos. Hopefully giving the liquid time to atomize before it gets to the intercooler, preventing the liquid from pooling. In theory.

[green-lantern]

Ouch!

I was getting ready to ask why you wanted to do this.

[CoopKill]

Even if atomized well before the inter cooler, would the cooler not act as a condensate zone due to temp change?

[KeithMac]

Have a look on Aquamist uk forum, there is a 50 page post on it!.

People have mentioned the compressor wheel wear problem, but it seems most of the damaged turbos that were posted up were also running WITHOUT air filters, so not a direct comparison.

I tested it out on the 9b`s, found no real gainst at the time with 125cc/min nozzles.

You have to aim for the compressor centre nut for best results and have good quality nozles with good atomisation.

[mb7050]

It has been used in racing cars for decades nowadays widely used in drag racing and tractor pulling just to name few ..... . In F1 they used pre turbo injection that they could use a slightly smaller turbo and get a better response, it was banned shortly after though(some of the turbo era F1 cars used intercoolers too, combined with pre turbo WI).
Water injection was so successful with World Rally Cars too that it was banned shortly after

Good atomisation was the key to succeed in the long run

There were some road vehicles with large-displacement engines that used a water injection pre turbo but about when an intercooler was introduced the interest in water injection almost disappeared.As for road cars, saab, for example used a pre turbo water injection in the Saab 99 Turbo(1977–1980)..

It was and still is widely used in the military. some old examples below(many more examples out there).
Allison V-1710 Engine
LIGHTNING AMERICA: VEE-ENGINES V-1710 SERIES
Pre turbo injection really shined in the experimental turbo-compound engine which was at the time(1950´s) way ahead of its time.

Pre turbo injection was very successfully used for more than twenty years in INDY and Champ cars (still is) !
this is how cosworth did it (lola champ car)

They called the system Pre-Compressor Injection or PCI and they introduced it into competition on the XB. I think this is one of the factors contributing to Mansell's success.

It is a 2.65 liter V-8 burning methanol and producing in excess of 750 horsepower at 12,000 RPM and 45" of boost.they were run to 13,200 RPM in their day,
The XB uses sixteen primary Bosch Motorsport injectors, two per cylinder http://www.lolachampcar.com/images/X...B%20Intake.jpg , and four side feed Bosch injectors arranged in a ring, called the PCI, at the turbo compressor inlet. Fuel rail pressure is 8 Bar or approximately 120 psi! Atomization at this pressure is a sight to behold.The compressor inlet injectors serve to cool the incoming mixture as it is compressed. Fuel is supplied by a mechanical fuel pump located in the fuel cell

The system works remarkably well. When I first started looking at engine data, I really thought the inlet air temperature sensor was broken. It just sat on 68 DegF which just could not be so given that there was a turbocharger and ambient temperatures were up around 90 DegF. I then expanded the data session to look at all the data from the session including firing up in the hot pits. As you can see below, inlet air temperatures start off at about 130 DegF then rapidly fall when the PCI ring fires. With heat soak, I've seen these temperatures up in the 190s and yet they fall like a rock when you stand on the gas. Neat trick Cosworth!

also note that they injected almost 50% of the fuel pre-compressor and thats a shit load of meth



another great example:

the worlds fastest C6 Z06 Corvette running on pump gas using one of our The Best Water injection system and water methanol injection systems at AlcoholInjectionSystems.com tri nozzle systems, 2 at the charge pipe and one directly before the supercharger inlet..
This is a street car. A street car with air conditioning, heated seats, and no rollcage. It runs on pump gas, drives to the track and runs 8.81 at 154 miles per hour.
Car went 8.80 first day at the track.

The Corvette above is running an air to air intercooler.

However, when intercooled we make sure that we size the nozzle only large enough so that everything that is sprayed is completely evaporated in the turbo or supercharger. No fluid is exiting the compressor. Only a cooler air charge and a slight increase in boost.
Add a nozzle pre-compressor and we can bring those temps down slightly further and depending on how much boost your running you can pick up some boost by doing so as well.

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Look in the Gallery section and you will find many successful examples.