no judgment, just the facts: my GZP experience

[IPD]

If you want to keep bringing it up, then start a new thread about our dealings. If not, then shut it. You're just beating around a burning bush trying to make yourself look good, when in reality you will look like a fool after you post up about our transaction.

1. i bought 2 used cranks from GZP with the proviso that they could be suitably reground for continued use. cranks arrive and are delivered to my machinist.

2. the letter from the machinist as to the condition of said cranks.
Goldin crank inspection report.doc

3. cranks are return shipped to GZP. after inspection of said cranks, GZP stonewalls on refunding my money, even though they already have their cranks back in their possession.

4. i am forced to file a chargeback with my credit-card for the amount of the transaction, and am additionally out $30 from the cost of return shipping.

i consider this matter resolved as well as it possibly can be.

[vr3.9]

On a good note, sounds like you've found a good machine shop. Would have been interesting to see what some of the random shops around might have said. I've taken 4 different cranks recently to AMS (the only shop I trust around here). 1 was good for .010 regrind (about 1k miles after another machine shop built the short block, every journal a different size) 2 useless and 1 ready to clean and polish.

[Hans@GZP]

Cranks were taken to our machine shop which said they were machinable. Cranks were also checked out by Ray Pampena who also said they were machinable.

Chargeback was found in our favor for a reason.

[Hans@GZP]

Those cranks are currently at my machine shop with the rest of my cranks so they can be machined.

[IPD]

ray did NOT have machine tools to examine those cranks at the time they were presented. by his own admission, he could not give an authoritative evaluation because of this limitation.

even IF the parts were 100% kosher (which i've documented to the contrary), the laws of good business say that when a customer returns a product--in the exact same condition it was purchased in--you offer a refund.

fwiw, i've heard NOTHING from my credit-card company suggesting that the chargeback was invalidated. i can (and will if necessary) provide additional data (pm's and such) to back my case and to validate the chargeback--if i am required to do so. so far, i've had no correspondence informing me of that contingency.

i've already eaten the $35-40 return-shipping cost. and imho, continuing to "fight" this issue about as much of a dick move as a company can make--since you'd essentially keep $330 of my money AND the shoddy product you sent me.

p.s.
you noted the "the cranks are back with the others, waiting to be machined". i hope everyone takes note of this. i implicitly trust what my machinist documented--and that being the case, any customer who ends up with one of these cranks--once machined--has a potential catastrophe on his/her hands.

[Hans@GZP]

Well, that's your one machinist's opinion. My machinist is also qualified to do the work in which you told me that "I am in cahoots with them". You wanted crankshafts that were machinable. You didn't express that .030 was not acceptable. I sold you items in which you wanted. We said we would offer a refund, or return the items to you, pending other machinist and professionals opinions.

We don't sell crap, and we stand behind every product we sell (new or used). I'm also not going to refund you on a used part because you had a sudden "change of heart". I'll let Emilie chime in when she's back from helping her mother out. She had all of the correspondences with you throughout this transaction.

[IPD]

Well, that's your one machinist's opinion. My machinist is also qualified to do the work in which you told me that "I am in cahoots with them". You wanted crankshafts that were machinable. You didn't express that .030 was not acceptable. I sold you items in which you wanted. We said we would offer a refund, or return the items to you, pending other machinist and professionals opinions.

We don't sell crap, and we stand behind every product we sell (new or used). I'm also not going to refund you on a used part because you had a sudden "change of heart". I'll let Emilie chime in when she's back from helping her mother out. She had all of the correspondences with you throughout this transaction.

i'd like to highlight that. that's one proviso that's rather unusual for ANY business. unfortunately for me, the machinist was not mutually agreed upon...and the one individual that might have been able to offer some clarity on the situation was not able to utilize machine tools to evaluate the goods.

i never had a "change of heart". from day 1--well before i even looked at GZP for these parts--i needed to get cranks that could be rebuilt to withstand substantial abuse. unlike what em accused me of, this had nothing to do with a "flip it and get rich" scheme. the nitriding/cryo-treatment process i need for my own crank has certain minimums for the process. the only way to recoup ANY of that additional cost (above and beyond what is required for my own crank) was to add additional cranks to the batch. due to the additional cost from the treatment process, utilizing new cranks would have resulted in treated cranks which would never sell--due to the price premium over OEM. the whole idea was to find used cranks that could be rebuilt; and within a price range that would allow them to be resold after treatment without taking a loss.

i've never once had any desire to make money off this. this project has always been about my own car, and acquiring the parts i need to accomplish my own build.

thanks for the smear campaign though.


p.s.
it also seems clear to me that you pulled the crappiest-condition parts that you "felt" met minimum standard. i personally would not be willing to utilize either of those cranks--after regrind--in even an n/a application--let alone the high-hp application that they would need to withstand; as no one would be buying a treated crank just so they could "go easy on it".

[Emilie@GZP]

You agreed that they were machinable. You specifically said that you would accept the cranks if Ray personally endorsed them, which was not stated in your "wanted" thread. If you wanted Ray-endorsed-800hp cranks, then maybe you should have bought them from Ray. When I get home, I will post the exact same screen shots that I sent to paypal and your credit card company.

Even your credit card company found in our favor and returned the $330 to us that you tried doing a chargeback on. I am still willing to offer you a store credit for your original purchase price on any in stock items. Same terms that I offered in my last communication with you.

[Emilie@GZP]

You received what you paid for. Any further reply from me will have to wait until next week when I am back in town and can get.to my computer.

[IPD]

ray's PM to me:

hey man, i looked at the cranks. obviously i cant magnaflux them nor properly measure them in the parking lot. but, to me... they both need to be cut .010 on the mains. one crank needs .030 on the rods and the other looks to need .020. if theres no cracks and they are not bent, id run them in any rebuild. they are crank cores that need to be cut to near .030... so i guess they are what they are.

if i was building an 800hp engine id start with a standard crank preferably new. if these cranks magnaflux good they should be ok to use if you dont mind an undersized one

note the part i've bolded--which is in conflict with my machinist's note that BOTH cranks were bent.

the cranks were not machineable; not by me, not by my machinist. if you feel you can salvage them, teriffic--more power to you. they were not serviceable for me, and i asked for a refund. i was offered "store credit" instead. even if i were to find something from GZP that i'd needed for this build (i didn't), i'm loathe to continue this charade of business with GZP after my experience.