What Apple product/s do you use?

[stealthify]

I don't look down on people who use Macs, I just assume they don't understand what they have. Sometimes that is the case and sometimes it isn't.

Alright, fair enough. I would say that's a fair assessment.

[Jeremy C]

ps - I might just agree with you on the dog vs cat thing. At least in regards to home security.

Cats can be fun for when they do utterly stupid shit, too. I admit that I laugh hardest at cats when they go dumb.

To throw a wrench in it: Cats/Dogs vs. Kids - which one is superior from choice? I think it's a fairly close battle myself.

And I did try to keep my post fairly light hearted and not being the typical hater. I've said my piece and moved on. Like I said - just HAD to reply to that post. Only thing I will bring up: The upgrade for Win 7 is still a full version. Many people have used the family pack to do fresh installs without the upgrade issue. It seems that MS couldn't close that hole since you can't do the XP-> 7 upgrade.

Oh! I know something every person in this thread can agree on...

IE6 < * and needs to die in a fire.

[Jeremy C]

I wonder what kinds of things you guys argue about with your girlfriends/wives...

We generally don't. The last thing we had a disagreement on was whether a true free-market system could actually work. I believe that a true free-market environment cannot work and that there needs to be regulation to keep oligarchies, duopolies, monopolies and what not from forming. She feels that an absolutely true free market would work and thrive, but there isn't a single example of one that has happened to date.

[stealthify]

And I did try to keep my post fairly light hearted and not being the typical hater.

And that, I definitely appreciate. This is a fun topic, despite being a little nerdy.

Also I didn't know that about the Family Pack thing. Did MS get the memo on this?

Oh! I know something every person in this thread can agree on...

IE6 < * and needs to die in a fire.

Amen, brother!!!

and lastly:

To throw a wrench in it: Cats/Dogs vs. Kids - which one is superior from choice? I think it's a fairly close battle myself.

If you have a kid, you definitely need to have a dog. I know my scars have never fully healed from trying to play with my family's cat as a kid.

[Jeremy C]

Also I didn't know that about the Family Pack thing. Did MS get the memo on this?

I think they tried to close the loophole, but haven't done it right. What you do:

Install fresh win 7
-When it asks for XP/Vista product key, skip and continue install
-once install is complete, it will put you on the "You have 30 days" setup deal.
-Start Win 7 setup again, let it run, and this time when it will skip asking for a key as it will see the existing copy of 7 as a previous OS install. Put in your upgrade key and you're on your way.

At least this worked last time I looked into it. There was also a registry key you could change to make it accept the upgrade key without there being a previous OS to upgrade from. I don't think MS is really trying to close this gap as not enough people are using it (retail sales pale to their OEM sales).

[GTOJOE]

I think they tried to close the loophole, but haven't done it right. What you do:

Install fresh win 7
-When it asks for XP/Vista product key, skip and continue install
-once install is complete, it will put you on the "You have 30 days" setup deal.
-Start Win 7 setup again, let it run, and this time when it will skip asking for a key as it will see the existing copy of 7 as a previous OS install. Put in your upgrade key and you're on your way.

At least this worked last time I looked into it. There was also a registry key you could change to make it accept the upgrade key without there being a previous OS to upgrade from. I don't think MS is really trying to close this gap as not enough people are using it (retail sales pale to their OEM sales).

This still works. Have done it twice in the last few weeks.

[HilbillyHomeboy]

/hijack
/ducks

Jeremy

[stealthify]

I think they tried to close the loophole, but haven't done it right. What you do:

Install fresh win 7
-When it asks for XP/Vista product key, skip and continue install
-once install is complete, it will put you on the "You have 30 days" setup deal.
-Start Win 7 setup again, let it run, and this time when it will skip asking for a key as it will see the existing copy of 7 as a previous OS install. Put in your upgrade key and you're on your way.

At least this worked last time I looked into it. There was also a registry key you could change to make it accept the upgrade key without there being a previous OS to upgrade from. I don't think MS is really trying to close this gap as not enough people are using it (retail sales pale to their OEM sales).

Ah yeah, makes sense.

Reminds me of a similar story with Snow Leopard when it first came out. While the install disc really did have and could provide a full installation of OS X 10.6, Apple was torn between designating Leopard as a prerequisite, or just providing the full version. People found a way around this, and ultimately Apple just went with $29 for a full, no-strings-attached install.

[GTO Assassin]

I dont think I've ever known more pationate people as you forum members. You guys go on and on and ON about stuff like this and politics and dont take a backward step. I honestly thought you all had better things to do. But I do appreciate the feedback.

Joe - go paint your car the right colour.

Scotty

[IPD]

your average computer user isn't you, me, Jeremy or Alan -- but rather someone like our brothers, sisters, friends or half-dozen others that use computers for the most simplistic of reasons

i get what shaun is saying here. he's saying that your average consumer doesn't give 2 shits about being educated, and is willing to pay more because of that dearth of knowledge. i think i already agreed with his assessment. it still doesn't make apple a good buy. apple is the monster-cable of the computer industry.

i don't think people shopping for cars should pay sticker-price either. i think they should shop around, do a little research, and find the good deals. yet this is PRECISELY what you suggest people shouldn't do--and instead buy apple products...thus magically saving them from the "hassle" of research. well a fool and his money are soon parted. so to those who feel that apple is a "good buy" because it saves them time....i'll be the first to tell you that you would have had greater ROI by using the extra $$$ you spent on an apple--if you'd bought powerball tickets instead.

You're not the average user, you didn't mind taking the massive time to really learn your systems and devices, and (to you) finding and downloading drivers is a piece of cake. For your average user, not so much. It certainly is a lot easier (at times) than it used to be, but I can't tell you the last time I had to hunt down and install a driver on my Mac -- and I, too, would have no trouble doing so if needed.

And by the way, that family pack you speak of, that's the upgrade alone price - not the price of buying a fresh copy like I was referring to for Snow Leopard. Which by the way, I just went to double check, and it turns out it's actually only $29 ($49 for a family pack = $9.80 per computer). Yep, obviously subsidized because Apple makes its true money on hardware and services (and it shows), while Microsoft makes its true money on software (and it shows).

if you can't find drivers; if you can't keep your internet-security-suite up-to-date; if you can't figure out how to do basic software installs; ...well....maybe you shouldn't own a pc/smartphone. we certainly revoke an individual's ability to operate a motor vehicle if they display a stark inability to operate it properly. why should technology be any different?

i get why apple sells though. let's just consider the stupidly high markup to be the "idiot tax" on people who don't know better--or those who should know better but don't care to.

oh, and apple should be selling their OS for pennies...compared to MS. it's not nearly as universally interoperable as windows. why in gods name would you pay more for an OS that does less?

That is the cost of misinformation from those PC fanboys telling potential Mac purchasers that their computers will use some sort of proprietary hardware inside it. That in order to upgrade it, they must replace it, etc. This is also the cost of taking your product BACK to the manufacturer to service it (outside of warranty), and this is not exclusive to Apple. Do you really want to go down that road?

pc users don't spread that myth. apple itself spreads that myth. i don't know where in left field you managed to pull that out of your ass, but it's total BS. hardware components are hardware components; and ever since apple started using intel processors--there has been ZERO difference between mac and PC hardware components (short of the bios, etc).

No. This is the kind of information that Apple and Jobs imply saying "This isn't a PC" "You pay more for our computers because they are special!". Believe me, us PC fanboys love breaking the Mac boys hearts about how run-of-the-mill their hardware is.

couldn't have said it better myself. +thanks.

This is where you're missing my point. It's not more expensive because it has a little Apple logo at the top, it's more expensive because you're buying it directly from the manufacturer!

really? my latest laptop is MSI. you can't get more "direct from the manufacturer" than that. and guess what? it will blow any apple product out of the water. you'd be spending ~$3,000 for an i-book that even comes close to the power of my lil $1500 msi laptop. *edit* my msi has a radeon HD 5870, currently #33 on this list:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...ist.844.0.html

the most comprable 15" factor macbook pro has a radeon HD 6750m, currently 71st on the same list. the "base model" 15" macbook pro has a radeon HD 6490m--currently 128th on the list. i'll happily point out here that at $1800 the base model is STILL $300 more expensive than my MSI; and the upscale version is even higher marked up. specs for my MSI:

MSI GX660R-060US
Software Bundle - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit, 2-Year Limited Warranty (include 1 Year Global Warranty)
Intel Core i7-740QM 1.73GHz Processor - 6MB Cache, 1333MHz FSB
ATi® Radeon® HD 5870 Broadway XT Discrete Graphics Card (DDR5 1GB VRAM)
6GB DDR3 SDRAM (2GB x 3)
640GB (320GB x 2) 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
802.11 b/g/ n Wireless LAN with Bluetooth
Blu-Ray Optical Drive
Built-in 720p HD webcam - HDMI (High-Definition Multimedia Interface) output
1920x1080 glossy screen, LED backlight-LCD display

...OH WAIT....that was $1528.17 including shipping. but that was BEFORE the $150 mail-in rebate. oh...and this was 5+ months ago. so really, now we're talking about a laptop that's 1/2 a year old (with a marginally slower CPU) that has a price $450 cheaper than the CHEAPEST MACBOOK at the same form factor. and mine has 2x hard-drives. and 2gb extra ram.

I wonder what kinds of things you guys argue about with your girlfriends/wives...

the gradual departure of american values away from 18th/19th century objectivist values towards an atmosphere of entitlement. ....oh wait, you meant something we ARGUE about...

um....the bathroom stinks after she takes a dump?

If you want a factory original part, pay extra and buy it from the manufacturer. You want an equally good part without the little Apple logo on it, buy it from NewEgg or TigerDirect.

an apple hard-drive is the same as a pc hard-drive. apple buys them from samsung/seagate/western digital--slaps an apple-logo on it--and then sells it for ~ a 200% markup. it's not a question of "mitsubishi-made" vs. "rock-auto". it's the SAME part. now if mitsubishi sold me turbos which were purchased from VW and slapped the MHI logo on them after initiating a 200% markup---well then you might have a case.

And *so what* if people - generally - can't spout off the technical reasons they'd pay extra, as long as they know those options are available to them. I believe Apple does an adequate job telling them that, but clearly its not the first few arguments that pop into a defenseless, "average" user's mind when needing to justify to PC-guy why they bought their Apple product.

that's the problem; people don't know what's avilable to them. that's where jobs comes in. he's like a televangalist for the tech community. "send me all your $$$ and i will save your souls". apple does NOT do an adequate job of explaining it. apple would put apple out of business if it did an adequate job of telling people what apple is all about.

I don't look down on people who use Macs, I just assume they don't understand what they have. Sometimes that is the case and sometimes it isn't.

i do look down on people with apple products. it's entirely different from buying a luxury automobile. i can respect someone with a BMW...even though i think they're a waste of money. i can't respect apple products at all--nor do i have tolerance for their users.

MOST apple users fall into one of two categories; those who can be saved, and those who have bought into the hype. the former is why i post in this thread. the latter is why i look down on apple users.


NOW i've said my peace.