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Thread: wideband vs narrowband?

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    wideband vs narrowband?

    So my AEM wb reads 10 flat at WOT while my O2's are running around .94 -.96.
    Both O2s and WB have been in the car for at most 6k miles. I also have a snow performance w/m kit installed (625ml/min) on the car that uses a progressive style controller. Now with the w/m, I should be able to run a little bit more of an aggressive AFR than a 10 flat. I just don't know if I should believe the nb o2's or the wb.
    Trying to lean it out a little did show small traces of knock. Not enough to pull timing or anything but still something I'm not very comfortable with. I do have a high mileage car which is a factor I consider before getting too aggressive. Any thoughts on this at all?

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    Stock injectors? What are you using to tune?

    10 flat is pretty rich and you should be able to lean it out close to 11:1 on most setups without much knock.

    Are both NBO2s reading .94-.96?

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    A narrowband ONLY reads rich/lean. It is a low/high device. The raw voltages it provides are very temperature sensitive and are effectively meaningless.

    So your wideband is reading "10:1" and your narrowband is reading "rich" - which is self-consistant.

    DG

    BTW, somebody has a center tag in their sig and no closing tag; it is screwing up the text display on the board.
    Last edited by DG; 02-24-2011 at 03:01 PM.

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    i've seen 10.2 :1 read .96 on narrowbands

    you are within the range of what a narrowband might read. I would always trust the wideband over the narrowband if the sensor is not old. If you run the wideband daily and it is getting to be 6 months old you may want to consider replacement. Their lifespan is greater than that, but if you are going to trust them to make major changes to your tune a fresh one is best.

    Posting a datalog would allow us to help a lot more.

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    I have 660cc injectors and tuning with SAFCII + SITC.
    I understand that 10 flat is pretty rich, but leaning it out seems to bring out knock. Which bothers me since I'm running w/m injection. I do have to deal with using CA's 91 octane but still seems kind of rediculous.
    And yes.. both o2s are reading .94-.96.

    6 months is a pretty short time line. I know for a fact that nb/wb were all installed after August of last year.
    And I own a 95.. I'm adding that because I believe you can make the nb run a little leaner on first gens..

    I don't have access to any of my datalogs right now but let me see if I can get some.

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    here's some logs.. they're honestly not the most ideal ones but its all i got atm.

    Dec_5_2010 second_gear_bad_coil_zeroITC.xls

    Nov_22_2010 20gain_60set_17psi.xls

    this one had a weird boost building issue.. I included some videos to show it. My cotter pin on my rear turbo disappeared so I put another one in but think i either need to shim the wastegate or i blew the turbo.
    Jan_21_2011 second_gear_90set_22psi.xls









    and a video of me getting spanked since i already took up so much of your time..
    Last edited by vTaKwiTHsLiCkS; 03-02-2011 at 12:22 PM.

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    *sigh*

    Attempting to read a narrowband output was discovered to be ineffective in like 1999. There is no meaningful information to be gained from a narrowband voltage reading aside from "it is low, so lean" and "it is high, so rich"

    Let me say it again - a narrowband voltage of 0.94V means the same thing as a voltage of 0.98V - RICH. That is it. Any attempt to read anything else into that - eg "0.98V is richer than 0.94V" is WRONG and will lead you far, far down the garden path.

    If you are tuning, you need a wideband. End of story.

    DG

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    Quote Originally Posted by DG View Post
    *sigh*

    Attempting to read a narrowband output was discovered to be ineffective in like 1999. There is no meaningful information to be gained from a narrowband voltage reading aside from "it is low, so lean" and "it is high, so rich"

    Let me say it again - a narrowband voltage of 0.94V means the same thing as a voltage of 0.98V - RICH. That is it. Any attempt to read anything else into that - eg "0.98V is richer than 0.94V" is WRONG and will lead you far, far down the garden path.

    If you are tuning, you need a wideband. End of story.

    DG
    I wouldn't even bother trying to tune without a wideband. You can get in the ballpark with a narrowband and watching the knock counts, but why risk an engine?
    R135
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