Opinions on these methods to lower knock and IDC's...

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I'd be happy with 16-20 degrees on pure pump.

If you really care then yes you need to get a wideband, but you are probably low tens afr.

[O_ROD]

Here's a quick snap from my log at 16psi:

RPM 6231
INJD 114%
KNCK 00
O2 .93V
TMA 16
COOL 85.6C
AIRT 9.8C
INJP 22.7ms

A wideband would be nice, but the mods are done for awhile due to other responsibilities.

[DG]

no, but your ECU reads your air fuel ratio, and will realize that it has to keep the injectors open alot less to maintain 14.7, and for WOT, you have the safc to adjust things so that you can tweak the afr to where you want.,

Not at WOT. That's the "open" in "open loop"

A wideband would be nice, but the mods are done for awhile due to other responsibilities.

A wide band isn't "nice". A wideband is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL if you are screwing around with fueling, either directly (with an AEM) or indirectly (with a SuperAFC or the like)

It's a PREREQUISITE. A MUST-HAVE.

YOU MUST HAVE A WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR TO PROPERLY PROGRAM A SUPER AFC

Can I make this any clearer?

DG

[dpartinvr4]

Not at WOT. That's the "open" in "open loop"
DG

an SAFC will be used at WOT becuase the ecu uses the Maf signal.

[DG]

The SAFC is used at WOT, yes, but the O2 sensor is not.

WOT is 100% a lookup table of MAF vs RPM, with some small adjustments for air and coolant temp. That's it. There is no, I say again NO mechanism for the ECU to compensate for fuel pressure changes at WOT.

DG

[O_ROD]

The SAFC is used at WOT, yes, but the O2 sensor is not.

WOT is 100% a lookup table of MAF vs RPM, with some small adjustments for air and coolant temp. That's it. There is no, I say again NO mechanism for the ECU to compensate for fuel pressure changes at WOT.

DG

As I've said in a previous post, I know all of this, it's pretty common knowledge. I also said I DON'T have an SAFC which makes a WBO2 a luxury at this point, not a necessity. IF I was tuning with a fuel controller I WOULD have one. Upping fuel pressure does not require a wideband, it's not rocket science here. Again, our opinions may differ, and I respect your input, but a lot of what you said has been repeated in this thread over. I have a good enough understanding about how our ECU's work to adjust fuel pressure and reap the benefits, I'm just looking to further understand some of the more intricate calculation methods it uses to control timing.

[DG]

OK, let me restate:

YOU MUST HAVE A WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR IF YOUR ARE ADJUSTING FUELING THROUGH ANY MECHANISM, BE IT CHANGING INJECTOR PULSEWIDTH ELECTRONICALLY, OR MECHANICALLY VIA FUEL PRESSURE

We keep repeating this because you don't seem to get it.

We are trying to help you out. There are cumulative DECADES of tuning experience here in this thread.

DG

[O_ROD]

OK, let me restate:

YOU MUST HAVE A WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR IF YOUR ARE ADJUSTING FUELING THROUGH ANY MECHANISM, BE IT CHANGING INJECTOR PULSEWIDTH ELECTRONICALLY, OR MECHANICALLY VIA FUEL PRESSURE

We keep repeating this because you don't seem to get it.

We are trying to help you out. There are cumulative DECADES of tuning experience here in this thread.

DG

DG, please don't take my responses in a derogatory way, I completely understand what your saying. Many of those who have posted on this thread I'd consider "experts" in the platform and hold their opinion highly, I've been around long enough to know who they are, you are among them...

What I'm saying is, this is the situation I'm in, right now a WBO2 is not an option for me. I understand I need one when dealing with fuel changes, but instead of reminding me of that, give me more constructive feedback based on my situation... Would you recommend I bring FP back to 43psi or what would be a safe baseline?

From the recommendations of other respected 3S tuners, I was told bumping up the pressure won't hurt. Since I did so, the car runs considerably better at WOT, have zero knock issues, and timing is still in check. From my personal experience, I have seen no ill effects of the changes made.

[DG]

Would you recommend I bring FP back to 43psi or what would be a safe baseline?

Honestly? I'd reset everything back to stock until you were capable of affording the right tools.

Maybe I'm pounding on you a bit hard, but there are like SIX threads going on where guys are trying to tune without using the right tools right now. That was understandable 15 years ago when we were all learning... but these days when tuning information is all over the Internet?

This is a lesson worth learning early, so you're on the receiving end of some tough love with the hope that the next 20 guys will read it as well: doing it right up front ALWAYS trumps doing it half-assed and trying to work around the incidental problems. When we are talking engine upgrades, that means purchase #1 is a wideband O2 sensor. It is the prereq for doing boost increases, fuel pressure increases, and injector changes, and it's not a bad idea for exhausts and intercoolers too. If you can't afford one right now, then you cannot afford engine modifications yet.

DG

[dpartinvr4]

turn the boost back to stock, you can leave the fuel pressure, its not going to hurt anything being up, keep an eye on knock. THis is the wideband I have, It's VERY affordable, and has everything you need to keep CEL's away, and provide data to a logger.