this is ghastly, read at your own risk.

[j2k4]

This thread is making me hungry.

How ironic.

This phenomenon may be why my pro-life stance occasionally garners me the moniker of "baby-eater".

The reasoning for this is well beyond me, but there it is.

[Zaroth]

Clumsily worded, but I get your drift - granting 'special status' to a "potential" human life?

What, precisely, is wrong with that?

I am better than a cow; if you are not, that is your problem.

Because there is nothing special about it just because it's part of the same species as you. Life is life. If you think that you are better than a cow, the only difference is your brain power. That evolution favored you more. Do you honestly think humans have more of a right to live than everything else because we can do math and use tools?

I might ask you the same question - who are you to preach to me?

I'm not preaching. I guess that sentence would sound like that if you pulled it out on context like you did... but I was under the impression we were having a relively intelligent conversation.



This has slightly deviated from abortion, but all I am saying is that life is survival of the fitest. That's why humans are where they are and animals are where they are. That doesn't make humans better per say... just more fit to survive. What gives us our ability to survive is our brain. It gives us the ability to make do and create amazing things. One of those things was the ability to stop the creation of life. To change what before, was ripping nearly fully developed babies out with coat hangers and killing people to taking a pill after a mistake and not ruining the rest of your life.

Your answer to that is "man up". You made a mistake, live with it. Umm... why live with a mistake if you can fix it? You accidently cut your finger off with a table saw... Fuck it... throw it in the trash... Or... you could put it on ice and take it to the doctor to get reattached. Which of the two seems like a better idea? I know which one I would choose.

[Zaroth]

You said "Something has to be living before you can kill it." How is that differentiating between intelligent and unintelligent life?

In any case, you're claiming we don't have to respect unintelligent life. I suppose that means I can go set the local mental hospital on fire then, going by your ignorant logic.

It was a vague statement that I didn't think I needed to further clarify. I was refering to life as concious, self aware life. I thought it was pretty obvious, but some people need more explaining than others. I appologize and I won't be so assuming again.

No. Lol. I am not saying you don't have to respect unintelligent life. Please quote me where I am. I am saying that unintelligent life is destroyed all the time, every day, every where. I'm just not granting special privledges to one form of it because it's growing inside of somebody. If you think that having respect for all life equally is ignorant than I'm sorry. Ignore the rest of my posts, because that's how I look at the world around me. If that's not how you see it then fine, but please dont insult me because I have a different view of things.

[j2k4]

Because there is nothing special about it just because it's part of the same species as you. Life is life. If you think that you are better than a cow, the only difference is your brain power.

Brain-power means nothing to you?

If that is so, perhaps you should consult the bovine lobby.

I'm not preaching. I guess that sentence would sound like that if you pulled it out on context like you did... but I was under the impression we were having a relively intelligent conversation.

We are having a "relatively intelligent" conversation - compared to your cows, at any rate.

This has slightly deviated from abortion, but all I am saying is that life is survival of the fitest. That's why humans are where they are and animals are where they are. That doesn't make humans better per say... just more fit to survive. What gives us our ability to survive is our brain. It gives us the ability to make do and create amazing things. One of those things was the ability to stop the creation of life. To change what before, was ripping nearly fully developed babies out with coat hangers and killing people to taking a pill after a mistake and not ruining the rest of your life.

More fit to survive = better.

As to the rest of your post, would you find it at all reasonable to maintain heightened expectations for human behavior (don't become pregnant unless you want a baby; practice prophylactic methods to prevent unwanted pregnancy) rather than giving in (cow-like) to base urges?

After all, 'twas you who remarked about brain-power, right?

Your answer to that is "man up". You made a mistake, live with it. Umm... why live with a mistake if you can fix it? You accidently cut your finger off with a table saw... Fuck it... throw it in the trash... Or... you could put it on ice and take it to the doctor to get reattached. Which of the two seems like a better idea? I know which one I would choose.

So, then:

Keep the severed finger, and toss the baby - both will have the effect of staving off personal ruin?

[Zaroth]

More fit to survive = better.

As to the rest of your post, would you find it at all reasonable to maintain heightened expectations for human behavior (don't become pregnant unless you want a baby; practice prophylactic methods to prevent unwanted pregnancy) rather than giving in (cow-like) to base urges?

After all, 'twas you who remarked about brain-power, right?


So, then:

Keep the severed finger, and toss the baby - both will have the effect of staving off personal ruin?

More fit to survive is more fit to survive. Better is subjective. Humans are the most parasitic, death bringing plague on the planet lol. Due to our wonderful brain power. While that does make us more fit to survive I certainly wouldn't call it better.

I do find it reasonable to maintain heightened expectations for humans. Unfortunately, in the world we live in expecting rape, murder, stealing, safe-sex, self responsibility, basic logic, adultery, and racism to disappear are a pipe dream. Thats the nature of humans and no amount of waving your finger and saying "Bad!" are going to stop it. Trying to punish people the way you are doesn't work and it has been proven. If it did we wouldn't have any of the aforementioned things. Did you ever speed again after your first speeding ticket? Sure you did. That's because punishment requires reinforcement and unless you get a ticket every time you speed over a long period of time the behavior will never be extinguished. Right now, the government will give you more money every time you pump a kid out and can't support it. That's not punishment thats a reward. I'd rather my tax dollars go somewhere more useful than pregnant teens.


Yes. It will. Unless your already wealthy or come from a wealthy family.

[j2k4]

More fit to survive is more fit to survive. Better is subjective. Humans are the most parasitic, death bringing plague on the planet lol. Due to our wonderful brain power. While that does make us more fit to survive I certainly wouldn't call it better.

Ah.

How do you feel about kudzu, then?

I do find it reasonable to maintain heightened expectations for humans. Unfortunately, in the world we live in expecting rape, murder, stealing, safe-sex, self responsibility, basic logic, adultery, and racism to disappear are a pipe dream. Thats the nature of humans and no amount of waving your finger and saying "Bad!" are going to stop it. Trying to punish people the way you are doesn't work and it has been proven. If it did we wouldn't have any of the aforementioned things. Did you ever speed again after your first speeding ticket? Sure you did. That's because punishment requires reinforcement and unless you get a ticket every time you speed over a long period of time the behavior will never be extinguished. Right now, the government will give you more money every time you pump a kid out and can't support it. That's not punishment thats a reward. I'd rather my tax dollars go somewhere more useful than pregnant teens.

I am not a fan of any sort of government subsidy, nor can I agree with the government substituting it's (a)morality for my own.

A few questions for you:

Out of 100 'unwanted pregnancies', how many do you suppose result from rape and incest?

The argument in favor of publically-funded abortion always comes down to the privacy issue, doesn't it?

Why should a reticence to confront the issue of a woman's privacy trump my concern over the cost of an abortion?

If a bum comes up to me on the street and demands money to resolve a 'private' issue, what is my obligation?

Further, knife-juggling can ruin your life as well; what do you suppose the government should do about that?

Yes. It will. Unless your already wealthy or come from a wealthy family.

"Yes"...what will?

You are missing linkage, here.

[J4YK]

Eh, Its not for me, But im not about to tell anyone else what they can do with their body/children. Fact is Way too many people on this planet. Why do you care what other people do at the doctor's office anyways?

[j2k4]

Eh, Its not for me, But im not about to tell anyone else what they can do with their body/children. Fact is Way too many people on this planet. Why do you care what other people do at the doctor's office anyways?

Do you vote?

If so, why?

[J4YK]

Why wouldnt i?

[j2k4]

Why wouldnt i?

Why would you?

You advocate a non-caring stance, after all.

Why should you care whether-or-not I care about anything, whatsoever?