Limits of our motors

**a2j** · 12-25-2010, 12:18 PM

timing belt will pop? lol maybe they meant supercharger belt...

**stealthee** · 12-25-2010, 02:19 PM

To make them feel stupid, ask exactly how a timing belt knows horsepower.

**thor'svr4** · 12-25-2010, 08:45 PM

in for some good quality info. i always just assumed that i would never have the power to break anything internal so i never worried about it. i am curious what a oem forged crank with 3sx rods and pistons would take.

**MaxClass** · 12-27-2010, 04:33 PM

My current build is from my ’92 TT [130k] and is a two bolt block. I replaced the crank with a forged one and had the crank turned and polished to perfection. Stock rods where rebuild/honed to perfect round and oil holes added for the full floating wrist pins and mated with Wiseco Forged Aluminum 8:1 Pistons with ARP bolts tightened to ARP’s specs prior to honing. Block bored for the pistons [minimum oversize] with ARP 2 Bolt Stud Kit. Bottom end fully balanced.

With 19T’s, Stage 3 heads with ARP studs with Brian Crower 272 Cams I should be able to hit 600HP if I push it. Sure I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed from the minute I start it but I’m not one to do stupid and foolish things to my investments. This is my daily driver and I’m not afraid to get on it but I did not build it to abuse it. My AEM True Boost controller will keep things under check [maybe 10-12 pounds] until I get my full tune and AEM EMS II.

If these guys out there can get 600HP from a stock engine with stock factory machining by just upping the boost then a clean precision built engine can certainly do it easily.

Somewhere I have heard 700HP with stock rods and 2 bolt engines.

I don’t feel that 2 Bolts and stock rods are the problem when everything is properly machined to perfection, fully balanced and with perfect clearances.

Trying the 600HP stunt on a stock setup with lots of miles is way to risky unless you have more money than sense. Never the less it shows how strong these engines are.

MaxNote: My machine shop informed me that my 130k 2 bolt block had perfectly round main journals when they tested them for roundness. A tribute to the quality of these engines.

P.S. Remember who trained your friend and let him go his own misinformed way. He’s probably still trying to get 350HP from a NA Mustang. Nuff said.

**Hammer** · 12-28-2010, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by MaxClass

My current build is from my ’92 TT [130k] and is a two bolt block. I replaced the crank with a forged one and had the crank turned and polished to perfection. Stock rods where rebuild/honed to perfect round and oil holes added for the full floating wrist pins and mated with Wiseco Forged Aluminum 8:1 Pistons with ARP bolts tightened to ARP’s specs prior to honing. Block bored for the pistons [minimum oversize] with ARP 2 Bolt Stud Kit. Bottom end fully balanced.

With 19T’s, Stage 3 heads with ARP studs with Brian Crower 272 Cams I should be able to hit 600HP if I push it. Sure I’ll be keeping my fingers crossed from the minute I start it but I’m not one to do stupid and foolish things to my investments. This is my daily driver and I’m not afraid to get on it but I did not build it to abuse it. My AEM True Boost controller will keep things under check [maybe 10-12 pounds] until I get my full tune and AEM EMS II.

If these guys out there can get 600HP from a stock engine with stock factory machining by just upping the boost then a clean precision built engine can certainly do it easily.

Somewhere I have heard 700HP with stock rods and 2 bolt engines.

I don’t feel that 2 Bolts and stock rods are the problem when everything is properly machined to perfection, fully balanced and with perfect clearances.

Trying the 600HP stunt on a stock setup with lots of miles is way to risky unless you have more money than sense. Never the less it shows how strong these engines are.

MaxNote: My machine shop informed me that my 130k 2 bolt block had perfectly round main journals when they tested them for roundness. A tribute to the quality of these engines.

P.S. Remember who trained your friend and let him go his own misinformed way. He’s probably still trying to get 350HP from a NA Mustang. Nuff said.

Solid build. Only weak spot is the stock rods and 2 bolt main. Still if you avoid detonation and get a good tune do not run out of fuel pump etc then your build should hold up to 600 hp. Keep in mind that is at the wheels, your engine is producing more like 750 hp and that is the stress on its internals. As long as the power remains smooth the rods and 2 bolt main should hold. But if you start pounding on it with detonation (much higher peak loads) then those parts reach the failure point. Again the E85 builds are much less likely to see this detonation and those high peak loads just do not happen with E85. Thus most guys can run more power on weaker parts and can get away with it using E85.
The best way to think about it is shock loading. The shock load of gasoline burn is much higher than E85 is. Peak cylinder pressure is higher with gas than E85. E85 has a longer duration steadier power stroke less instant load but longer duration to get the power, thus easier on engine internals. Gas is more of an instant burn then coast for much of the rotation cycle. In order to get the power out of gas you need to contain that instant burn without detonation and without melting things. Much trickier to do right than E85 is. E85 also burns cooler. Puts less heat stress into your pistons and valves.

In other words 700 awhp may be possible on stock rods with E85 but not with gasoline. But even on E85 the high stress will eventually cause them to fail.

**Chris@Rvengeperformance** · 12-29-2010, 04:28 PM

600 AWHP on stock rods can be done, but the rods can give up eventually, even with a very tiny amount of knock. I would not run stock rods over 550AWHP.

When I need do a rebuild I'm going to either go super cheap and all stock parts or have everything forged. I would not run forged pistons on stock rods.

What are you going to have in reworked and full floater converted stock rods? $200 ? $300?

for $600 you can get the 3sx or spool rods.

**MR2** · 12-29-2010, 07:34 PM

I still hold to my origional post of 500hp.

**MaxClass** · 12-29-2010, 08:50 PM

Hammer, et al,

Putting my rebuild back on the street with 360cc's and stock ECU with True Boost controller holding things around 6-8 pounds. I have no intension of showing off and wasting a lot of time and effort. My plan is to drive the car from Vegas to So. Cal and have FSR install the AEM EMS II series and tuning it there. Hopefully the EMS can handle any knock. If it can't I will have it de-tuned to where I can still run 500 HP any time I want. They will also install my 550's for the tune at that time.

Yes, a 4-bolt and 3SX rods would have been better over all but I don't slam my wheels and I will always know exactly what's under the hood and what is not. I've owned the car for the 19 years ago this month [Dec] that I drove it off the show room floor and it has always been my DD so it should hold me for at least another 10-15 or until they put me in a old folks home.