IC heat soak discussion and solutions

[aaronatstate]

how about make the stock ecu able to read the values from those late model ls mafs you can find them 4" and that´ll flow enough for 1000hp+ (draw through) and they have iat and baro built in...

Should be fairly simple. Just a matter of changing the code around to read GM Maf values instead of the Karman values. I'll talk with Brett and Jeff about it.

[aaronatstate]

No dice with the GM Maf. Uses a different setup (hot wire) to measure airflow, and a 0-5V signal. It's not compatible.

[blindmist]

One. And he's actually in the 8's. That being said, Speed Density is better Which is why we are trying to figure out how to make the flashable ECUs able to do it

Is there a place I can go to to fully wrap my head around speed density and how it works? I am wanting to end up SD with my EMU, but I want a full understanding of what is happening so that I can tune accordingly.

[3000GT MR]

i have a 12" fan on the back of my IC in series with my rad fans. so all 3 turn on at the same time. It actually performs better than expected. Makes the AC colder too. It also aids in cooling the radiator because its moving alot more air threw the condenser. I have actual number reading in a thread on the other site ill post over hear some time. It dropped intake air to around 10-20 degrees above ambient.

And yes you still need a IC with meth/water injection. why wouldnt you want to cool the air before you cool it even more? And speed density doesnt care about it. Im surprised you dont have 10 stock IC because they are reliable and can find them in a junkyard

[aaronatstate]

Is there a place I can go to to fully wrap my head around speed density and how it works? I am wanting to end up SD with my EMU, but I want a full understanding of what is happening so that I can tune accordingly.

I have little to no idea how to tune speed density. I just know that it uses air intake temperature and manifold pressure to calculate airflow.

[KeithMac]

It does if you're using speed density, that's the one major drawback of speed density, it only guesses at the air mass, injecting anything cold totally screws it up, unlike using a stock ECU. Stock ECU wins every time.

Steve

I run a Supercharged Golf on Megasquirt in SD and straight water had no effect on the reultant AFR`s.

I prefer our MAS over Speed Density for daily driving, but if you want to wring every last horsepower out then SD is the way to go.

[cjbyron]

I use speed density on all my 3000's with AEM EMS. But it really depends on your own needs and how you want your car setup. Each has it's benefits IMO.

I use water injection and tune for it above ~17psi. But the injection system (I use the aquamist style) can also easily be tapped and used as your source for intercooler sprayers. As for nozzles - just use the same kind as with the systems themselves. I use an HKS Fan Controller and it has a "spray" feature built into it. That controls the tap from the injection system pump and can initiate spray automatically. Just remember that for SMIC split the lines so they are even (same length). So sure, you can easily use water injection parts for a sprayer.

I can read my SMIC input and ouput temps inside the car. I've ended up never needing the sprayers. It was a nice idea when I had it all apart and installed it but the reality turned out that it was unneccessary. I never use it. As for SMIC getting heat soaked in traffic - I never noticed that myself but if they did they'd cool off pretty quickly once the car is moving. Not putting out a lot (nil) while in traffic so there's no heat soak sitting in traffic. Yes there is less cooling at the intercoolers but you're input temps are also much lower in slow traffic. End result is: not a problem. So, that's my experience.

Or if you have a FMIC and really want to cool it, put in a liquid CO2 system by DEI

[mb3000]

I use speed density on all my 3000's with AEM EMS. But it really depends on your own needs and how you want your car setup. Each has it's benefits IMO.

I use water injection and tune for it above ~17psi. But the injection system (I use the aquamist style) can also easily be tapped and used as your source for intercooler sprayers. As for nozzles - just use the same kind as with the systems themselves. I use an HKS Fan Controller and it has a "spray" feature built into it. That controls the tap from the injection system pump and can initiate spray automatically. Just remember that for SMIC split the lines so they are even (same length). So sure, you can easily use water injection parts for a sprayer.

I can read my SMIC input and ouput temps inside the car. I've ended up never needing the sprayers. It was a nice idea when I had it all apart and installed it but the reality turned out that it was unneccessary. I never use it. As for SMIC getting heat soaked in traffic - I never noticed that myself but if they did they'd cool off pretty quickly once the car is moving. Not putting out a lot (nil) while in traffic so there's no heat soak sitting in traffic. Yes there is less cooling at the intercoolers but you're input temps are also much lower in slow traffic. End result is: not a problem. So, that's my experience.

Or if you have a FMIC and really want to cool it, put in a liquid CO2 system by DEI

Some people report actually loosing horespower after installing this sysytem. Something about the sprayed CO2 going back into the engine bay and then into the intake of the engine, starving the engine of oxygen. I would reccomend using Nitrous Oxide if anything at all if you choose to go this route. You can use everything the same just fill up the tank with N20 instead of C02.

[cjbyron]

Some people is sorta like "they say". That is just talk rather than actual field experience IMO. Or someone not understanding it's application (more likely). If you're intake is directly in the way then that is plausible only in theory. However, you do not sit there with it flowing CO2 for any extended amount of time. It is a fairly quick shot and it's then dissipates quickly. The purpose is to cool down prior to a run. You hit it for a few seconds to supercool the IC. Done. It is not flowing when you are wanting to make HP. Also - if there was a problem of it being sucked in via your intake then you would have the same problem with using nitrous. Which would, in theory again, also present you with some real problems. I'd rather suck in a lot of CO2 than untuned for N2O...even if just for price, lol. But in reality this does not occur.

It's not a DD or average user add on by any means. But if you have the need and want to seriously cool down the IC it works very well. Better than anything else.

Theories aside, I use a DEI Cryo system and there's no problems at all. Works damned good. 2 seconds on the button and the FMIC quickly cools down like a MF'r. None enters the air intake to the degree of any noticeable change.

If you want to read more or ask the mfg's directly, check out DEI. Nice folks, good quality stuff, I've done a lot of business with them.
http://www.designengineering.com/cat...er-sprayer-kit