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Thread: crankshaft camshaft position sensors JDM 92 swap into 93

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    crankshaft camshaft position sensors JDM 92 swap into 93

    I had Landspeed Auto in Chicago look at my 1993 3000gt sl that had it's engine swapped with a 1992 jdm engine.
    They told me that the mechanic that installed the 1992 jdm engine (Action Auto Services in Palatine, IL)
    didn't swap over the Japanese sensors which are not compatible with US ECU.
    Action Auto Services spliced the wires so that my 1993 3000gt will work for the 1992 Japanese sensors.

    Landspeed said I need to swap cam & crank position sensor part #md153464,

    which is located on top engine close to throttle body
    ignition sensors (ignition control modeule) part # md15888, & crankshaft position sensor which he said is located on bottom of engine.
    Landspeed didn't have part# because their computer system just said to 'call dealer' so
    he gave me 1993 part # css504 to cross reference to figure out the 1992 part number.

    From my research talking to Mitsubishi dealers & searching the web I think Landspeed might have given me wrong info

    First off it's confusing why is it that when I search the other part #md153464 what Landspeed called cam & crank sensor on google that
    some people call this the camshaft sensor & other call it the crankshaft sensor??
    It appears more people call this the crankshaft sensor so that appears to be right.
    However others including Landspeed originally said this is cam position sensor.
    He said cam sensor is on top of the engine & the crank sensor is underneath.
    Later he changed what he said the name of this part & said this was cam & crank position sensor. I already ordered this part #md153464 which
    I will now refer to as 92 crankshaft position sensor

    Now for other part in question the dealer said part #css504 is not their part number, however I found on Advanced Auto the css504 is their 3000gt 1993 crankshaft sensor.

    which matches with Mistubishi #md187066

    the closest thing that I could find that matches on a 1992 is Advanced auto part #CSS605 which
    which they call camshaft/crankshaft position sensor.
    which seems to match with Mitsubishi part # md187067

    which all the other parts stores I saw call camshaft position sensor so I will now refer to this part as 92 camshaft sensor.

    I believe this is the part I need even though Landspeed said it was a crankshaft sensor...
    because the crankshaft sensor is the other part #md153464 92 cranksahft position sensor that Landspeed said was called the cam & crank sensor.
    Does anyone know if I'm right?

    Another confusing thing is the some parts stores list md187067 camshaft position sensor as compatable 1991-1999
    others list it as compatable 1993-1999
    If this is the part I need then I should have this part still on my old 1993 engine so my question is can I just use this to swap over to the 1992 jdm?

    I read there's latency issue with using 1992 ecu using 1993 sensor but does that issue only pertain to
    sensor part md153464 92 crankshaft position sensor or does it also effect part md187067 92camshaft position sensor?

    here's info on the latency issue I read:

    -------------
    There is one aspect of using 1991-1992 sensors with a 1993+ engine control unit (ECU), or 1993+ sensors with a 1991-1992 ECU that must be considered. Brian Geddes and Matt Jannusch (on the Team3S email list) pointed out that the two different types of sensor have different latency. Latency is the amount of time it takes the sensor to respond to the optical disk or vane and send a voltage change to the ECU. The ECU is programmed to accomodate the sensor latency. As determined from the AEM standalone engine management calibrations, the latency for the 1991-1992 sensors is 50 microseconds (us), or 0.050 millisecond (ms). The 1993 sensors have a 130 us latency (0.130 ms). What this means is that if you install the 1991-1992 optical pickup sensor and use a 1993+ ECU there will be more ignition timing advance than the ECU wants. If using 1993+ Hall effect sensors with a 1991-1992 ECU, there will less timing advance than what the ECU has determined is correct for the engine operating conditions. The AEM software allows a user to adjust the latency for the different types of sensor to assure the actual timing advance matches programmed advance. This latency difference in sensor types causes a few degrees difference in timing at high rpm. For example, at 7000 rpm, a single degree of crank rotation takes place in 0.0238 ms (23.8 us); 7000 rpm = ~116.667 rps ==> ~8.57 ms/rev = 0.0238 ms/degree. There is a difference of 80 us between the two types of sensor, leading to a 3 to 4 degree difference in timing.
    ---------------

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    I won't try to pick your thread apart to quote pieces, but I will give you the short of the short. If you use a 91-92 engine in a 93+ car you have to use the 91-92 cam/crank sensor which is located on the rear intake cam. There is no provision to install the 93+ cam sensor on the head of a 91-92 engine, and the oil pump differs meaning no provision to bolt the 93+ crank sensor to the 91-92 engine.

    The mechanic that put the 91-92 engine in did the right thing by splicing the wiring from the original separate sensors into the one sensor on the 91-92 engine.

    This wasn't a "Japanese sensor" issue, it was simply a year change issue. As for the latency you won't see any difference in how the engine runs.

    [06-05, 19:29] OhioSpyderman: Brian, finding a woman is NOT the answer, you need to shop for a good VACUUM

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthee View Post
    I won't try to pick your thread apart to quote pieces, but I will give you the short of the short. If you use a 91-92 engine in a 93+ car you have to use the 91-92 cam/crank sensor which is located on the rear intake cam. There is no provision to install the 93+ cam sensor on the head of a 91-92 engine, and the oil pump differs meaning no provision to bolt the 93+ crank sensor to the 91-92 engine.

    The mechanic that put the 91-92 engine in did the right thing by splicing the wiring from the original separate sensors into the one sensor on the 91-92 engine.

    This wasn't a "Japanese sensor" issue, it was simply a year change issue. As for the latency you won't see any difference in how the engine runs.
    Thank you for your reply! Ok I was using 91-92 JDM cam/crank sensor. But Landspeed said there's differencese between the Japanese & USA sensors so if I use the Japanese sensor I would have to use Japanese ECU but if using USA sensor then I would have to use USA ECU.... I was using 93 USA ECU with the Japanese 92 sensors & that ECU fryed also 93 heated oxygen sensor fryed.

    JDM Depot in New Jersey also agreed & confirmed that when using Japanese sensors use Japanese ECU & when using USA sensors use USA ECU

    I already ordered a 92 ECU, 91-92 USA cam/crank sensor, 93 heated oxygen sensor, was going to swap the ignition sensors from my old 93 engine with the Japanese one's currently on the engine.

    But I just didn't know about that other part on the bottom of engine which I suspect is the camshaft position sensors...if I can use the one from my 93 engine to replace the Japanese one as Landspeed suggested..

    Another option Japanese ECU's can get for cheap but Landspeed thought that I would have to get jdm ecu flashed. MXPI Tuning in Steamwood, IL replied to me today when I asked them if I needed to get Jdm ecu flashed by saying: "...Sorry for the delayed response. As long as you're not obd2, using the Japanese motor will be ok. My only concern is a difference in sensors from your factory harness versus the JDM one, which may trigger a running issue."

    Because they replied late I had already ordered the USA ecu & cam/crank sensor before their reply.... Maybe thinking of trying the Japanese ecu & if it works seliing the usa ecu & cam/crank sensor it will be a lot cheaper that way but also idk about his concern with USA harness maybe that contributed to my problems.
    Last edited by GaryFabian; 10-12-2018 at 05:02 AM.

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    As Brian already said... There is no difference in JDM and cam/crank sensors. The only difference is in the year model change. The 91-92 CAS makes the exact same signal as the 93-up separate crank/cam sensors. The only difference being the latency. As you quoted, that will result in 3-4 degrees timing difference at redline. The factory specs for initial timing are 5 degrees +/-2. So if you expect 3 more degrees advance, you could set the initial at 4 and still be withing spec at the top...

    Basically your car is set up fine as it is... You are wasting your time making a bunch of changes based on misinformation and an apparently uninformed shop...

    Is there a problem you are trying to solve here?


    Real Performance Automotive (541)816-4500 www.FB.com/RealPerformanceAuto

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    Quote Originally Posted by RealMcCoy View Post
    As Brian already said... There is no difference in JDM and cam/crank sensors. The only difference is in the year model change. The 91-92 CAS makes the exact same signal as the 93-up separate crank/cam sensors. The only difference being the latency. As you quoted, that will result in 3-4 degrees timing difference at redline. The factory specs for initial timing are 5 degrees +/-2. So if you expect 3 more degrees advance, you could set the initial at 4 and still be withing spec at the top...

    Basically your car is set up fine as it is... You are wasting your time making a bunch of changes based on misinformation and an apparently uninformed shop...

    Is there a problem you are trying to solve here?
    Thank you for your reply. The problem was the car wouldn't start & before when it did start it was running rough. So I towed it to Landspeed, they found my 93 ECU was damaged not working & also the heated oxygen sensor was also broken they suspected because it was touching the exhaust. That's when he said I need to change all the Japanese sensors if I was using USA ECU so I ordered 92 USA UCU & 93 heated oxygen sensor. I wish I found out about no difference in JDM & cam/crank sensors sooner I just ordered 92 cam/crank sensor 2 days ago. Also is there any difference between jdm or usa ignition control module sensor like Landspeed said? Does it matter if I use the JDM ECU or USA ECU? Also why does JDM Depot say same thing as Landspeed when buying their jdm engines to change all the JDM sensors to USA sensors if using USA ECU?

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    The ICM, or as others around here refer to it the PTU, is the same as well. Landspeed doesn't seem to be very competent in these cars and were only throwing guesses out because of their lack of knowledge.

    The first gen ECU's are notorious for leaking capacitors. That is likely the culprit to your ECU issue. It has nothing to do with "Japanese sensors."

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    Quote Originally Posted by GaryFabian View Post
    Also why does JDM Depot say same thing as Landspeed when buying their jdm engines to change all the JDM sensors to USA sensors if using USA ECU?
    The emission systems and controls are different. JDM engines don't have warm up catalysts, and only use one O2 sensor. Using the USDM precats and O2 sensors solves that issue. Everything else is the same.

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    For an NA engine there was only one o2 and there were no precats on a 93 engine. For 94 or 95 NA engines only had precats and more than one o2 if the car was "California spec." All 96+ NA's had precats and 4 o2's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthee View Post
    The ICM, or as others around here refer to it the PTU, is the same as well. Landspeed doesn't seem to be very competent in these cars and were only throwing guesses out because of their lack of knowledge.

    The first gen ECU's are notorious for leaking capacitors. That is likely the culprit to your ECU issue. It has nothing to do with "Japanese sensors."
    ok thanks again to you both for your replies & help!

    But since my car & damaged ecu was a 1993 produced after June with cam & crank sensors separated wouldn't mine be considered 2nd gen? or is that still 1st gen?

    As for my new ECU I can get a JDM ECU for half price of 92 USA ECU so can I use that JDM ECU instead?
    btw mine is Federal & not California spec

    I was hoping the changing the sensors would fix the running rough issue before it gave out but apperently not. When the ecu goes bad does it go bad at once and just suddenly stops working?

    Or can the ecu gradually go bad & so maybe that's why it was running rough before it gave out?

    Since the engine was swapped I have not been able to drive it just around the block a couple times before ecu & oxygen sensor gave out because when I take my foot off the gas it would die out

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    The generations are determined by the body style changes, not ECU and sensor changes.

    The 1st gen ECUs that fail can all fail in different ways. Sometimes it's gradual sometimes all at once. It very well can cause a rough running condition before total failure.

    It's been a long time so my memory is fuzzy on the ability to use JDM ECUs in a USDM car. There is information out there though.

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