Anyone else experienced this? (1st gen shifter issue)

[RealMcCoy]

Anyone ever ponder why Mitsubishi re-designed the shifter in 93? Do you think it was to make the car sportier? Or do you think they were solving a problem?

After several experiences and observations over the last few years, I'm starting to lean toward the later...

Let's go back about three years, when I rebuilt the trans in a local owner's 91 VR4. Got it all together, and it worked like crap... I spent a ton of time trying to make that damn thing work correctly. The synchros seemed to hold just fine, it would downshift fine, if you were getting after it banging gears it worked great. Any mellow cruising, or grandma shifting, it would clunk and crash into gears. I had that damn thing apart at least three times checking every pre-load, synchro clearance, gears, sliders, dog springs, etc... I tried several different kinds of oils, I had a couple conversations on the phone with Ray about it, I did a ton of research, and became very educated how all the parts in a synchro assembly work together. I formulated a tentative theory on what was going on,meanwhile checking for clutch problems, linkage problems, etc. But it just continued to kick my ass...

I did end up finding some sloppy parts in the shifter cables, and after fixing them it did get better. It also seemed to get better with time as the synchros bedded in... I got it to a point the customer was happy with the way it worked, but I was never personally satisfied. I've driven several early cars since that worked in a similar manner, where if I didn't have that experience stuck in my head, I'd automatically assume they needed synchros. But after that, I would wonder if there was really anything wrong with the trans....

Fast forward to last week... I finished a project for a California member that included rebuilding the trans. Guess what? Deja vu.... Now this guy spent a ton of money on a full rebuild, 300m shaft, Quaife front diff, Willwood brake kit, sway bars, rebuild steering rack, fixed some oil leaks, etc... One thing he definitely deserved was a properly working car that was a joy to drive... I was not going to let this one get out of my sight without a true fix.

One thing I was absolutely sure of this time, was that there was nothing wrong inside the trans... Pulling it back out would have been a snipe hunt. I did find some bad bushings in the shifter, and I'm sure it would have helped, but I kept remembering my last bout with this issue. I couldn't help but think there was a design issue if every single part in the linkage had to be perfect for the trans to shift worth a damn. As I was driving it, I continued to build on my assessment of the first battle, and came to the conclusion that if you shifted it very quickly, it was fine, but if you used a normal easy shift motion, it was shifting too slowly, kicking back, and the synchro keys were popping back. I also found that if I grabbed the shifter down low, well below the knob, and used the same shift action and speed, (but with a shorter ratio) the problem was almost gone...

So being as I needed to pull the shifter anyway to change the bushings, I went out and yanked the shifter out of my 95, lubed it up and bolted it in the car....

Fixed... It's now a perfectly shifting trans that I'll be proud to deliver to a happy customer.

[NOMIEZVR4]

Good post. I was never a fan of the 5 speeds to begin with and the log shifting assembly never helped either.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

You know I have had similar problems on my 2nd gen. I think there's two things going on in my case:

1)The new synchros seem to take forever to bed in. 1000+ miles. I don't know if this was a material change. They may have upped the hardness on them to prevent wear, but this makes theme take longer to bed. The new three piece synchros had a 2004 date stamped on them, so this couldn't have been a recent change.

2)From the trans shifting like crap I have gotten really ginger shifting it. I think as you seem to be speculating if you try to shift quickly without enough force the synchros keys don't apply enough pressure and you get a scratch or notchyness. I have noticed if I shift REALLY slow and gently sometimes into 2nd at like 10 mph you can feel it go past the dogteeth a couple teeth before completing the shift. I think I just need to train myself to shift harder, but its difficult when your trans hasn't worked right for 3 years.

[Alan92RTTT]

I went out and yanked the shifter out of my 95, lubed it up and bolted it in the car....

Fixed... It's now a perfectly shifting trans that I'll be proud to deliver to a happy customer.

Did you move just the shifter shaft or the entire assembly? I have tried to install the shifter shaft but it binds at the bottom to the base. I know I can pull the base out and fix that just not high enough priority to care.

[RealMcCoy]

You know I have had similar problems on my 2nd gen. I think there's two things going on in my case:

1)The new synchros seem to take forever to bed in. 1000+ miles. I don't know if this was a material change. They may have upped the hardness on them to prevent wear, but this makes theme take longer to bed. The new three piece synchros had a 2004 date stamped on them, so this couldn't have been a recent change.

2)From the trans shifting like crap I have gotten really ginger shifting it. I think as you seem to be speculating if you try to shift quickly without enough force the synchros keys don't apply enough pressure and you get a scratch or notchyness. I have noticed if I shift REALLY slow and gently sometimes into 2nd at like 10 mph you can feel it go past the dogteeth a couple teeth before completing the shift. I think I just need to train myself to shift harder, but its difficult when your trans hasn't worked right for 3 years.

Out of curiosity, what shifter are you running? and is has the counterweight been removed from the selector shaft?

Did you move just the shifter shaft or the entire assembly? I have tried to install the shifter shaft but it binds at the bottom to the base. I know I can pull the base out and fix that just not high enough priority to care.

I just pull them at the pivot... Never had a problem going back in? The biggest PITA for me is always getting the centering spring and sleeve assembled without wadding up the plastic bushings.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Out of curiosity, what shifter are you running? and is has the counterweight been removed from the selector shaft?



I just pull them at the pivot... Never had a problem going back in? The biggest PITA for me is always getting the centering spring and sleeve assembled without wadding up the plastic bushings.

I am running the stock shifter, all new shifter bushings, new shifter cables, and the counterweight is installed. Adjusted everything as closely to where the neutral on the trans matches the center on the shifter.

[RealMcCoy]

I am running the stock shifter, all new shifter bushings, new shifter cables, and the counterweight is installed. Adjusted everything as closely to where the neutral on the trans matches the center on the shifter.

Is the spring washer on the shifter upper pivot intact and giving good resistance to movement? I noticed that it does make a difference in the shift feel.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Is the spring washer on the shifter upper pivot intact and giving good resistance to movement? I noticed that it does make a difference in the shift feel.

Do you mean the one on the cross bolt? The side to side spring is discontinued according to cherry hill IIRC.

[RealMcCoy]

Do you mean the one on the cross bolt? The side to side spring is discontinued according to cherry hill IIRC.

I'm talking about MB659108, in ASA illustrations it would be 22-200-24588E

Cherry Hill's website shows it's a good number, but I haven't actually tried to order one. Always been able to scrounge up a good used one any time I needed to...

But even if the washer is good, wiped out bushings will reduce it's preload and render it ineffective...

[lrc-vr4]

Interesting. I have the exact opposite problem with my 91. New synchros have probably 2-3,000 miles on them now. If I shift slow and just sort of lightly push the shifter toward the gear I want, then it just sort of falls into place. If I shift quickly, I feel resistance and frequently get a short grind especially on 3rd. My shifter bushings are worn out though. Now I'm wondering if I'd be better off sourcing a later model shifter instead of putting new bushings in mine.