XM Intake Manifold and s90 TB Dyno...

[NOMIEZVR4]

You can get the glass ethanol content testers for like $5 on eBay. I don't start changing fueling until I test what's in the tank.

Afr alone just doesn't impact power that much unless you get way off.

The maf should pickup any additional airflow, so im always curious when people say better flowing parts made the afr change a lot. If anything you are hitting different loads and the ecu is setup a little different there or your maf is not scaling properly.

now that you mention it although I'm running an evo maf the sensor is not the same one that I had previously..not the same physical unit. Not sure if that may affect readings. Both mafs were/are OEM stock.

I posted my fuel map and datalogs on page 2 for you to see. 2byte airflow went up but overall peak load numbers fell slightly. Not sure how much temperature will affect airflow data.

[kywhitelightning]

Holy faulty logic. We've got data here suggesting NO GAINS @ 500 whp. You're simply assuming this combination will separate itself from the stock parts as the air flow increases. It might. It might not.

Further, you're ignoring years of real-world evidence suggesting that the stock TB and manifold don't EVER present a hard limit. I've made over 600 whp through these parts on my 3.0L and you're trying to suggest that there's a limit at 500 whp. LOL

Or it could still show negligible gains or stock could prove to be better as air flow increases. You don't know.

Was there a bend between the MAF and the TB or do you have the 3.5" MAF directly mated to the TB? Any bend or coupler in that section of tubing will cause pressure drop. 3 psi measured by what? What's the accuracy of the 2 pressure sensors you're using?

If your measurement is valid, you can approximate the air flow at your data point and using the pressure drop equations, estimate the pressure drop at higher and lower power levels. That should be a trivial task for someone aggressively speculating about the performance of intake manifolds.

Thanks again to Nomie for attempting to create a valid experiment so the rest of us can use the data to draw whatever conclusions we want to

Your right, it might or it might not. I'm gonna lean on the side that says it will, north of 600, which is where I thought you plan to be if not further. I say this because I noticed a difference in pressure between the manifold and pipes. The more pressure I added, the greater the restriction became until I ran out of resolution on the 3 bar. The fact that it took 23-24psi manifold pressure to start to see the sensor readings seperate tells me that north of 600 is where the testing for these parts needs to start.

My setup contains 3 bends and the associated couplers for the maf and TB between the sensors. Once I get mine back to being correct again, I'll move the sensor to right before the TB and see if there is a difference. The measurements I took on my car are valid as the sensors were calibrated from the same gage at the same time. Even if the scales are skewed (doubtful), the difference in pressure that was measured is legit.

That hard limit you seek will probably never be found because we have had cars on this platform run into the 30's boost pressure in the manifold. Curious what their pre TB pressures were though? If nothing else an intake restriction in a turbo setup only makes the turbo work harder and adds some heat to the intake air. How much, I don't know.

I plan to keep my stock stuff as well but, I do believe there is power to be had from these parts and it is going to take at least 600WHP to start to realize any gain from it. I will be maxxing my setup out once right and still don't feel there is enough to be gained by changing these parts to justify the cost at 700WHP. I felt your other post showed your initial interest in these parts and thought you could have a setup making enough power to realize some benefit. My point was not to say your setup would be limited to 500, it was to say yours could potentially benefit from it.

Jeff

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I think Trev was even running in the 40s boost wise on the stock intake. Had to be near 1000AWHP

[familyMAN]

I think Trev was even running in the 40s boost wise on the stock intake. Had to be near 1000AWHP

Okay, and he also ran aftermarket cams on a 74 block and 72 heads that were decked AND didn't degree the cams. Yes it works, but not necessarily the most efficient way to make power.

[kywhitelightning]

Okay, and he also ran aftermarket cams on a 74 block and 72 heads that were decked AND didn't degree the cams. Yes it works, but not necessarily the most efficient way to make power.

Exactly

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I'm not even sure how to respond to that guys. What you are saying sounds like an insult, but you probably didn't mean that.

At the end of the day he was in a very small group of folks who made 1000+ with a 6G engine and also persevered through a lot of adversity with that car and the 6G platform and kept going for a long time. He just wasn't into buying a part because someone said it would make more power.

[TurboSinceBirth]

What they're saying wasn't an insult. It's the truth. That's also the same thing Ray was saying about the evo maf. He said you can make 600AWHP on it but that doesn't mean you should because it's not the most efficient way of doing it. That fact was proven by swapping out a 3.5" GM maf for a 40AWHP increase in power. The same is true for the stock intake manifold and a non-degreed set of cams. There's power to be had there definitely with degreeing the cams properly but also with swapping out to a bigger intake manifold. At what point is it robbing power? Not sure. I do think it's at a much higher power level. I'm disappointed that there aren't any gains so far but I'm also hoping the evo maf may be hiding more potential. Right now that should be the bottleneck in the system. We'll find out if the intake helps after swapping in a GM maf. It should at least be present in the mid range considering the runners aren't any shorter.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Where in any way did I argue that the stock stuff couldn't be improved?

[TurboSinceBirth]

Where in any way did I argue that the stock stuff couldn't be improved?

Nowhere so what's the problem? I think we're all on the same page. Maybe we'll get some hard data on a few more parts upgrades.

[familyMAN]

Point is, just because it has been done, doesn't mean it's the best, most efficient, or best for everyone. I could say the same for Jeff's insane 700awhp quest on td04s