Official 2013 NFL Discussion Thread

[Echo419]

but that's also my point. because you're measuring on a blip, it's an anomaly. you might as well throw the entire idea of standard deviation right out the window. didn't you take statistics? it's not a representative sample.

I'm only comparing them to the others playing at that time. that's it. I never claimed they were better than anyone at another time in the game. it doesn't matter because that's not the point.

Again, I point you to Montana and Rice.
Brady/Moss in 07 16 game season: 98 receptions, 1493 yards, 15.2 YPC avg, 23 TDs
Montana/Rice in 87 12 games (3 missed due to injury, 1 due to the strike): 65 receptions, 1078 yards, 16.6 YPC avg, 22TDs

If you plot that out, you see that they were almost mirror images of each other. Except that Rice had a much higher TD to reception ratio, and TDs are what wins games giving him (and Montana) the edge in my eyes. Again, given the difference in eras it's hard to *really* compare them directly, in 87 DBs could still harass receivers right up until the ball was on its way. Given the choice between the two, I'd take Montana and Rice for both that singular season, and for long term.

yeah, I agree Montana/Rice was the best combo ever and I never said they weren't or that Romo/Owens were better because they didn't play at the same time and that's not the comparison I was making.

edit: I'll quote myself.

TO and Romo were the most prolific QB/Receiver pair in football when they played together. but yeah, TO was drama for real.

seriously you 2. how is this not clear?

[sergechronos]

p.s.
if manning/harrison is #3, it's only because the colts O was so deep that it would spit out multiple players with 1000 yard seasons perennially. the 2004 season had 3 WR's with over 1000 yards. it's hard to emphasize how effective one combo is when the secondary/tertiary combos are more than adept enough to START AS PRIMARY on any other NFL team.

Not arguing that the other players were good, the system certainly benefitted Harrison and Mannings stats. And of those, that wasn't Harrisons best year and he went downhill a year or two later, Wayne was/is still good, and Stokley eventually ended up elsewhere with less than half the production in his chance to be a top receiver. Compare Harrison's 02 year when he had 1700+ yards of receiving and 11 TDs, nobody else on that team cracked 1000. Hell, only one other guy broke 500 yards. In fact, you look at most other years for the Colts it was like that. Manning and Harrison and Wayne excelled in the system, most of the other receivers, TEs and RBs were role players. The ones who left the system generally failed to exceed the numbers they set as Colts when they were 2nd and 3rd options. Garcon with Washington *may* do better, but hasn't been long enough to tell.

However, in the same way that you can't compare stats across generations, you also can't separate systems from stats. Look at the legendary Sammy Baugh. His numbers aren't *that* great, but he was one of the first QBs who was doing the forward pass at a time when defenses were 9 to 10 men crammed against the line of scrimmage. The Eagles move for a 5 man front in the mid 40s (and the eventual creation of the 4-3) were direct responses to Baugh and the Redskins torching people for 72-3 victories. By comparison, Manning was a master of deception. Fake audibles, one of the best PA motions I've ever seen and he was excellent at selling the draw play. Baugh used, for lack of a better term, brute force with his passing game because there was no such thing as pass defense then. Manning used more finesse in spreading the ball around, getting defenses second guessing and utilizing the TE and slot 12 years ago (which has become the big thing to do in the last 3-4 years).

[sergechronos]

seriously you 2. how is this not clear?

I agreed with Romo/TO (both from viewing experience and statistical fact). My refuting of Brady/Moss was in response to Corey proposing that Brady/Moss was the best single season combo, not in response to you.

Correction: I'm an idiot. When you posted that if anyone else wanted to score blah blah blah, I assumed it was Corey that posted because I'm too lazy to read names or look at avatars. Apologies.

[Echo419]

I agreed with Romo/TO (both from viewing experience and statistical fact). My refuting of Brady/Moss was in response to Corey proposing that Brady/Moss was the best single season combo, not in response to you.

sorry I misunderstood that. it's still early

[sergechronos]

It would seem we both need more coffee. And I need to get to work on the car before the heat gets up today.

Would take much more intense review to come up with a definitive list for the 05+ era (think 05 was whent hey changed the rule). One that has been overlooked thus far by us is Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub. 07,08 and 09 were absolutely ridiculous years (especially if you extrapolate out what would've been possible in 07 without the injury to Johnson) where they averaged almost 100ypg and 8-9 TDs each year. 07 in particular would've been insane as they would've had close to 1500 yards and 16 TDs at the rate they were going. Unlikely it would've stayed at the same rate, but heckuva combo right that that gets overlooked a lot for a team that lacked pretty much any other receivers.

[CoreyB]

Pretty much in line with this discussion. Interesting how many times Brady is in this.NFL History: Top 50 QB-WR Tandems of All-Time | Bleacher Report

[sergechronos]

Indeed it is. I disagree with the placing (and kind of the selection) of Brady and Branch. That was a combo that averaged less than a thousand yards and 5 TDs a season, somehow that merits 18 despite Manning and Wayne having near identical averages getting 28?

Same with Warner and Holt. 1999 they had just around 800 yards together, every season after that was 1300+, including 2 that were almost 1700. Somehow they're at 29? Theisman and Monk got 30th despite only having a couple years over 1000, and several at 700 and an average of 5 tds per year? Meanwhile right behind them, Moon and Carter had an average of 1300 yards and 17TDs for 2 seasons, but they end up 33? Marino and Duper average 800 yards per year and 6 TDs, they're 38th? McNair and Mason, Favre and Driver also average around 800ish yards a year, they end up in the 40s? Warner and Fitz average around 1500 yards and 10TDs, they're 44. Elway and Smith average around 1k yards and 6tds, they're 46. Palmer and Ochocinco get over 1k per year and 8TDs, they're 47? Already posted the insane numbers Schaub and Johnson have put up earlier and they're 48?

Skipping the very old guys considering how markedly different the game was, but some of these are just absurd. Theisman and Monk should be, if on the list at all, in the 40s. Brady and Branch, if they belong at all, should be in the 40s with McNair/Mason, and Favre/Driver who had similar stats. In short, their list is absurd although it does bring up some great combos I hadn't thought about. Moon and Carter being one of them. That was a fairly monsterous combo, and I forgot about Warner and Fitz (maybe still a bit bitter over them knocking Carolina out of the play offs when Fox decided to have Delhomme try to be Manning..) And Warner and Holt, forgot how insane the Greatest Show on Turf was..

[IPD]

ok. so all that says is that brady is a decent QB backed up by a phenomenal O-Line and backed up by interchangeable receivers. color me mckayla maroney.

[CoreyB]

It says more than that, it says Brady makes stars out of mediocre receivers. Moss was really the only very talented receiver Brady ever had. The reason that Brady/Branch is on the list is due to the success, not the yards and touchdowns. Its the fact that they won some very big games when Branch was Brady's #1 receiver.

[93STLTH]

No Jets Players Drafted In New York Jets Fantasy Football League

"I almost took Mark Sanchez, but I changed my mind" says Mark Sanchez

By PFM Staff Updated: August 8, 2013
NEW YORK – After nearly two hours and sixteen rounds worth of picks, the members of the New York Jets fantasy football league completed their official 2013 player draft without selecting one single New York Jets player, sources confirmed early today.


“We couldn’t believe it,” said center Nick Mangold. “When the draft was over, we were all comparing our rosters. I was feeling pretty good about my team because I got Tom Brady at QB, C.J. Spiller at RB, and Dez Bryant as my WR. Then all of a sudden, Santonio Holmes said, ‘Hey, didn’t any of you guys pick me?’ We all just kind of looked at each other and shrugged. That room was dead silent man.”

“So we all started going through our selected player lists, and sure enough, no Jets,” continued CB Antonio Cromartie. “I had the first overall pick, so I course I took Adrian Peterson. Then in rounds two and three I grabbed Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Miller. Maybe I might’ve taken (Jets RB Chris Ivory) in the middle rounds if he wasn’t injured. But there’s no one else on the New York offense that appealed to me.”

“I drafted Drew Brees in the second round as my primary QB,” said Mark Sanchez. “Later on, I was considering drafting myself in round 13 as a backup. But then I saw that Christian Ponder of the Vikings was still available, so I picked him instead. Just because, you know, his starting position is more secure.”

“Last year, I had Shonne Greene, Dustin Keller, and the Jets defense on my team, and I came in dead last,” said head coach Rex Ryan. “I’m not making that same mistake again. This year I loaded up with Peyton Manning, Ray Rice, and Wes Welker so I’m feeling real good about my team.”

Added Ryan: “Plus, I picked the Tampa Bay defense, and now that they have Darrelle Revis, they should be AWESOME. Championship, here I come!”