Is our suspension setup correctly by aftermarket strut MFR's? Is the bias correct?

[sergechronos]

Guys, understeer (for the unskilled driver) is always safer, period. Going too fast into a corner and the car scrubs speed and goes straight with ZERO additional skill or input. Oversteer or more importantly snap oversteer or even sometimes called doing the 10 knuckle shuffle is about the most scary thing for a new driver or someone that has never had to deal with it. I used to be a driving instructor for the HPDE with SCCA. I promise you, understeer had much better results for the newbie.
Just for fun, here's a neat example.

Of course understeer is the lesser of two evils in this case, however, I would venture most of the folks here (and the folks willing to wade through all these pages) are probably of the mindset that they can handle a neutral or slightly oversteer biased vehicle. I absolutely agree that snap oversteer is absolutely terrifying the first couple times you encounter it pushing a car.

That said, even with "optimized" coil overs, I went venture that equal rate springs on the car to get it to neutral would push the car to a slight oversteer bias with a stronger rear sway bar (given how small the factory rear is anyhow), or of course people could just opt for some slightly stiffer rear springs.

[B-Man]

Of course understeer is the lesser of two evils in this case, however, I would venture most of the folks here (and the folks willing to wade through all these pages) are probably of the mindset that they can handle a neutral or slightly oversteer biased vehicle. I absolutely agree that snap oversteer is absolutely terrifying the first couple times you encounter it pushing a car.

That said, even with "optimized" coil overs, I went venture that equal rate springs on the car to get it to neutral would push the car to a slight oversteer bias with a stronger rear sway bar (given how small the factory rear is anyhow), or of course people could just opt for some slightly stiffer rear springs.

We weren't talking about the 'mindset' of the people reading this thread and understeer. We were talking about why the car is set up from the factory the way it is.

[sergechronos]

I thought Erron was referring to Bill's wanting neutral with an oversteer bias, didn't realize we were still hung up on why cars come with understeer.

[Erron Spalsbury]

M3's come with understeer apparently. This video made me go, EEEEK!!

M3 Cliff Dive raw footage - YouTube

[anyonebutme]

You see what I'm talking about how novice drivers turn the wheel more when understeering and causing the situation to be worse? Watch again.


That car totally could have made that corner at that speed.

[Erron Spalsbury]

Yep, which will scrub off speed typically slowing the moment of impact. In this case, he just went off a cliff.

[sergechronos]

Yep, which will scrub off speed typically slowing the moment of impact. In this case, he just went off a cliff.

Hahaha I know it's wrong to laugh at it, but I just picture you saying "Just went off a cliff" like it's some casual ordeal.

And while he did turn the wheel more and make it worse, what do you think happens with oversteer? Realistically he spins himself out and goes flying off the cliff at full speed. Of course, could be a variety of other factors at play there. Worn tires up front, or he may have lowered it and changed the handling dynamics, or upgraded a sway bar or similar to have changed it, no telling if it actually understeered from the factory or not. I digress though, I think that the understeer taking speed off is probably the only reason why he more of just rolled off the edge instead of flying straight off of it.

[Nihil]

I think everyone's made their damn points, now lets start experimenting with spring rate setups god damn it! lol We need real world results now that we have the problem sorted out!

[sergechronos]

Well, everyone will have to experiment on their own to find their happy place since everybody drives differently and I don't know that anyone is about to put their car on some kind of kinematic and chassis dyno.

I think my plan then is probably Apexi S1s with SCE adapters, then I can just buy a set of springs for anywhere from 50-80 bucks to tinker with it.

[Nihil]

Well, everyone will have to experiment on their own to find their happy place since everybody drives differently and I don't know that anyone is about to put their car on some kind of kinematic and chassis dyno.

I think my plan then is probably Apexi S1s with SCE adapters, then I can just buy a set of springs for anywhere from 50-80 bucks to tinker with it.

Yeah, I wanna hear real world results so I can figure out what where I wanna go with my setup when I get to it, meaning, if a 50/50 split works best or a 40/60 works best, I can always scale back from what Erron and J are runnin. Basically, just results if the theory is indeed correct.

Out of curiosity, why have you chosen to go with the ApexI setup over others? All coilovers are able to run different springs. Just wondering.

From everything I've looked at, Megan is the only one to actually have the brake line mounts attatched, which is a bonus, and the Ksports I posted previously, are the only ones with a 50/50 spring rate, which, I'd assume, would mean they'd have the correct valving. So, my top two choices in my opinion, at this time, would be the megans for correct fitment, or the Ksports for proper valving and spring rate. What's everyones thoughts on those assumptions?