zomg IE sucks!`

[sketch]

ITT: news from 2002?

[Alan92RTTT]

I do web development and I prefer IE over Chrome. For serious application development Chrome has no regard for breaking changes.

I could write a book if I documented all of the jQuery/Javascript things that break in IE. We support FF, Chrome, Safari and IE8 >. I'd bet that at least 25% of our total dev time is spent "fixing" things to work in IE.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I could write the bible on forced automatic updates in chrome that break the way files are transferred or other actual functionality.

Your chat box is pretty broken in all the browsers, so I'm not sure how standards compliance is working out for you.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

Let me expand on this. The problem is standards compliance guys live in a fantasy land where every website is rewritten as standards are updated. I'm sorry, but that is not remotely feasible. Browsers of all brands should do a better job at backwards compatibility.

Try to print shipping labels with paypal's multi order shipping for example. Good luck finding a browser combo that works 100% of the time and doesn't throw 99 warnings. I'm sure you guys will throw stones at paypal, but this time of behavior is MUCH more prevalent than you will admit.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

The only developers that prefer IE are those that develop in .Net/ASP since it was built around the same framework as IE it tends to work well.

Anyone who codes in standard compliance has to work in hacks to get their pages/designs to work in IE browsers.

Microsoft ignores standards and tries to create their own. The only reason IE has such a large percent of the market is due to consumer ignorance. IE comes pre-packaged with all Windows installs and has been since day one. This was a psychological effect that most people refer to the internet as the "E" icon and don't see it as just a program. They don't realize they have other options out there. they just assume that IE is how they connect to the internet. Same effect happened years ago when Dial up was the only means. Most people associated the "AOL" icon with connecting to the internet.

Over the years people are becoming more aware of the other options out there besides IE and are becoming aware of all of the issues associated with IE. IE has been slowly loosing market share and will continue to until they understand that they need to follow compliance standards and fix all of the security holes they introduce in a timely matter not on a schedule that leaves it users wide open.

The main reason not to use IE is the fact that it is the number one targeted browser for spyware,viruses, trojans, etc. Hackers know they have a better chance of breaking into your system when it is the mostly used browser.

The problem with security by just being a minority browser or operating system is that if you do well suddenly you are the target. The macs are at the leading edge of this.

I find it slightly offensive that you would insist that asp.net sites cannot be written to standards compliance. I am not sure why you would say that as in the end it is all html/css and javascript to the browser.

[Alan92RTTT]

Your chat box is pretty broken in all the browsers, so I'm not sure how standards compliance is working out for you.

I did not write the chatbox

I think you missed Dr Gonzo's point on security. Its not that .net apps are less secure. Historically IE itself has more security vulnerabilities that the other browsers. When you add that to being the browser with the largest install base IE has a huge red target painted on it. Hackers will look for issues in IE because when they find one they have a huge target audience. If you want your system to be secure a good start is to not use the browser everyone is trying to hack.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I did not write the chatbox

I think you missed Dr Gonzo's point on security. Its not that .net apps are less secure. Historically IE itself has more security vulnerabilities that the other browsers. When you add that to being the browser with the largest install base IE has a huge red target painted on it. Hackers will look for issues in IE because when they find one they have a huge target audience. If you want your system to be secure a good start is to not use the browser everyone is trying to hack.

Of course what you are saying about being popular is true and of course the browser will have more security holes because it is the most tied to the OS.

Personally ever single time of I have picked up Malware has been while using Firefox, but personal stories don't really matter.

Certainly there have been security improvements on virtually all accounts over the last few years and I have no doubt the walled garden approach that Windows 8 is bringing is going to help a lot.

[Alan92RTTT]

The issue with developing websites is not really about security tho. MS/IE have decided to not follow standards in their implementation of javascript. Its one thing if its a feature nobody has and they roll their own version but if all the other browsers do it one way MS needs to stop being different. All the browsers have "issues" but they are normally in the form of bugs or things broken to fix security issues. MS seems to actively go out of their way just to be different.

And don't get me started on Win8 and the metro UI....

[DrGonzo]

Not meaning to imply that .Net/ASP cannot be built compliant. The little I have used that platform I have found that it is geared toward using IE's same principles. Not saying that you couldn't code it to be compliant.

As for Malware through Firefox, it most likely came through some type of Advertisement on a page that you went to. Hackers target Ad Networks to server up their malicious code as they find it easier to deliver then tried to hack security holes. Delivering malicious code through an online advertisement is the easiest way to get into someones computer. One of the biggest reasons I believe in AdBlock. Granted I do searve ads on the sites I run, but I use Google Adsense which has good methods for containing infected advertisements and they have trusted ad networks.

IE's biggest security hole is it's Active-X framework which allows direct interaction with the operating System. Until Microsoft rethinks/re-engineers that framework, there will always be security holes and bugs.

Just to be clear. I am not against Microsoft. I worked for Microsoft for many years as an engineer for the Advertising and Publisher solutions section. I worked with malicious code, trojans, viruses etc on a daily bases being served directly through IE and through online Advertising. So I have the knowledge to share. I can only share my experience and personal interactions with what I used to do for a living. The decisions still lies in the end user.

[Chris@Rvengeperformance]

I do not like ActiveX. On the other hand I hate Java. It is not that you can't do a lot with it, it is that no matter how fast you computer is Java has a very common habit of hanging the browser while it decides to load.

It seems to be that Microsoft is going to eliminate ActiveX:

Is IE 10 Going to Kill ActiveX? (No, but

The difference between Microsoft and others is typically Microsoft doesn't overnight end support for things people have come to depend on in their business operations. They can't eliminate ActiveX right now because there are too many users that depend on it.