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    Crankcase Ventilation

    Lately I have been thinking should I install a simple belt driven vacuum pump where the ac unit normally sits that way I could create the desired 15" of vacuum in the crankcase under all conditions + more power maybe.



    http://www.lsxtv.com/forum/gz-motors...p-kit-194.html

    http://www.dragstuff.com/techarticles/vacuum-pumps.html.

    I wonder have anyone done it before is it worth a try ?

    I remember Import Power had electric one in his car back in 2005 or so what ever happened ?



    please share your thoughts.
    Last edited by mb7050; 03-13-2011 at 06:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mb7050 View Post
    Once again I´m thinkin how could I improve the stock crankcase ventilation system ?
    less oil contamination and no need to vent the crankcase back to intake is what matters most to me.
    Remove PCV, vent all 4 ports (draft tubes).

    Or, krank vents. Anything else is unnecessary.

    AEM s2 EMS | E316Gs | E85

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    Crankcase vacuum can have a positive effect on power. I think it is a very good idea. Only problem is that you may lose some power to operate the pump, but I'm pretty sure the positive increase in power would offset this. I don't recall exactly, but mabye something like 10-15 hp is possible. I once tried to use an electric smog pump to do this on my bmw, but it burned out quickly. There is another system that uses venturi effect in the exhaust to suck gasses out of the crankcase, but I think I read that this wasn't all that effective or had some sort of negative effect (I forgot). I do think some sort of electric pump would be the best way, but you would need one hell of a pump (powerful and rugged enough to withstand crankcase gasses).

    Bit of interesting reading I just goggled up quickly:
    http://nutterracingengines.com/racin...uum_facts.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by RL7 View Post
    There is another system that uses venturi effect in the exhaust to suck gasses out of the crankcase, but I think I read that this wasn't all that effective or had some sort of negative effect (I forgot).
    Exhaust slashcut evacuation

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    more info
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Open Breather Ventilation
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This method is adequate for ventilating crankcase gasses in turbocharged/supercharged cars because the extra blow-by will force its way through any filter quite easily. You want to make sure you provide as many sources as possible to allow the pressure to escape with ease.

    For H, F, and D series engines you can use the stock PCV line(excluding the PCV valve), Breather Line, and tap an extra 1-2 ports in the valve cover if wanted. You can attach a filter directly to the line or connect them to 1or2 catchcans with a breather filter on top.

    You want to place the catchcan in the highest possible location you can locate in your engine bay. This will allow the catchcan to collect blow-by gasses without consuming excessive oil and allow a drainback line to easily flow oil/gas mixture back into the engine(if you choose to use this feature).

    The sole purpose of a catchcan in an open breather system is to "trap" oil and blow-by gasses so they do not contaminate your engine bay and the environment. The surface area in the lines and the catchcan facilitate this. Increasing the surface area by using steel wool or other means will certainly help capturing these gasses but will also restrict them from escaping. The best compromise is to use a baffled catchcan such as one Moroso manufactures.



    On B series engines it is preferable to ventilate the crankcase gases through 2 ports located on the back of the block. This arrangement can be accomplished by removing the PCV chamber behind the Intake manifold bracket and sealing the stock Crankcase ventilation hole. If you are running the stock Intake manifold you will want to also plug the PCV port on the Intake Manifold as well.



    The Crankcase ventilation hole can be sealed with one of these 3 methods:
    1) Aluminum Freeze Plug (34.4mm-34.6mm)
    2) Aluminum circular plate epoxied with Devcon Liquid Aluminum
    http://www.devcon.com/devconfa...id=34
    3) http://www.z10eng.com/ makes a plug.

    It is important that you seal this opening with an Aluminum plug and not a rubber one!

    Remove the ports with a 14mm Allen(Snap-on) and install these 2 washers and ports as shown below(Honda part numbers shown):



    Use reinforced high temp hose 5/8" ID. Their will be a port on the top of your block which normally connects a line to your PVC chamber. You can either seal this or T it off one of your ventilation lines. The last thing to do is place a small filter on your breather port located on your valve cover.

    I ran this above setup for approximately 1 year with no problems. My car was daily driven hard boosting 17-18 psi. I tested this setup using the following configurations:
    1) Drain-back feature to the one of the original lines
    2) Back to the oil pan
    3) Without the drainback feature.

    When I removed the drainback feature I would fill the catchcan half full every 2-3 weeks. The evacuation lines would dis-color but never suck oil even when I used the stock Honda fittings without an anti-siphon tube. The contents of fluid collected inside the catchcan was mostly unburnt fuel and contaminants with very little oil. If you are experiencing excessive oil consumption in the catchcan I suggest you place your catchcan higher or do a leak-down test.

    I suggest manually draining the catchcan instead of using the drainback feature to eliminate gasoline and contaminants from re-introducing themselves to your oil.

    Bottom Line

    Cost: 20-150 dollars(dependent upon open filter lines or use of catchcan)
    Performance: Good(as long as their is enough ventilation)
    Reliability: Good.
    Environment: Horrible(no catchcan)- poor(Catchcan)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Intake Manifold Vacuum Assisted Ventilation
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In Turbocharged vehicles the Intake manifold sees both vacuum and boost pressure unlike in naturally aspirated cars. The PCV valve acts as a check valve blocking any pressure in the rare occasion their is backfire in the Intake Manifold. I have heard that some individuals placing a check valve in-line and allowing the Intake manifold to assist in ventilating the crankcase. The check valve insures that boost pressure doesn't enter into the crankcase through this line.

    Ideally one would want to induce a gradual amount of vacuum up to 15 in/hg under full load. Connecting the evacuation line to the intake manifold would do the exact opposite of this. On a boosted vehicle the Intake Manifold will read 25in/hg at idle and 20-15in/Hg in low load conditions and quickly disappear when any moderate to high load conditions appear.

    In a stock vehicle this is acceptable because the PCV valve meters the vacuum as shown:

    Idle, Low load--- high vacuum pressures fully retract the pintle causing only a small vacuum draw on the crankcase.

    Mild load conditions--- vacuum present in the intake manifold is not as strong so the pintle sits in the middle of the pcv valve allowing more vacuum to evacuate the crankcase.

    High load + WOT conditions--- their is almost no vacuum present and the pintle is almost completely extended allowing the most amount of gasses to be drawn into the intake manifold.

    Engine backfire--- the pintle fully extends and seals to eliminate any gasses from flowing from the intake manifold to the crankcase.

    Not only are you pulling excessive vacuum at low load conditions you are contaminating the Intake charge with oil and unburnt fuel blow-by.

    I cannot recommend this setup to anyone.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Intake slashcut evacuation
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    Using a slashcut tube to create vacuum is an old trick which works on the Bernoulli effect as air rushes past the tube at high velocities. Make sure you place the slash-cut opening in the opposite direction of the airflow.

    One method for evacuating the crankcase is to allow the Intake(pre-turbo) to draw out these gasses. In my tests their was a linear load dependent vacuum drawn using this method. None to insignificant amount of vacuum drawn at idle and low load conditions, moderate load created 0.25 psi(0.5") of vacuum, and high load/WOT created a maximum vacuum of 0.5 psi (1") vacuum. One does not need to use a check valve with this approach as their is never any reason for pressure to force its way into the crankcase.

    Their is a positive and negative aspect to this approach. The great thing about this method is that it is the only method which allows one to completely eliminate any blow-by gasses from contaminating the environment. The downside is that it contaminates the Intake charge with oil/fuel/contaminants.

    Judging from the amount of contaminants I collected in my open breather catchcan every 2-3 weeks it would be absolutely insane to use this method without a sealed(no open breather element) and baffled catchcan in-line between the crankcase /valve cover and the intake. Keep in mind that most of the contaminants will be sucked into the intake as opposed to only some contaminants trapped in an open breather catchcan while the rest pollutes the environment.

    Some good news is that the Intercooler piping and intercooler will act as a very large catchcan and trap most of these contaminants before they reach the engine. The bad news is that I suggest you periodically clean the inside of your intercooler and intercooler pipe.

    Bottom Line


    Cost: 20-150 dollars(dependent use of catchcan and welding)
    Performance: Good(as long as the compressor housing/Intercooler are cleaned
    periodically and a catchcan is used)
    Reliability: Good.
    Environment: Excellent(provided that you use no other open breather elements)

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    and the rest


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Mechanical Vacuum
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The only people right now that make this for Hondas is:
    http://www.z10eng.com/.

    The great news is that this is the best setup from a performance/reliability perspective bar-none. The bad news is that it is extremely expensive and you have to run their complete oil pump setup thus loosing your AC compressor. My conversation with one of the owners a while ago led me to believe these guys are extremely knowledgeable and will customize your complete setup specifically to your needs. You can choose between a dry sump, wet sump oil system, or even add on a mechanical fuel pump. The vacuum generator can be manually adjusted for desired amount.

    Expect to free up more whp then the standard 2-5% because this setup goes way beyond simply inducing vacuum in the crankcase.


    Bottom Line


    Cost: Variable. Expect around 2 grand.
    Performance: Excellent.
    Reliability: Excellent.
    Environment: Poor.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Electric Vacuum pump
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have studied and tested the idea of using old electric brake booster vacuum pumps which were made for old GM vehicles to induce vacuum in the crankcase. Using an off the shelf electric vacuum pump to draw a specific amount of vacuum is tangled with complex problems.

    These pumps run 16in/hg of vacuum at 13.7 volts and 19in/hg at 16 volts. Remember you don't want to draw more than 14-15" of vacuum and it is preferable that the vacuum is gradually increased in a linear fashion with load which these will not do without some tricky electronics.

    I have studied both mechanical and electronic approaches to solving these dilemmas to no satisfaction. After all the problems I had wrestling electrical gremlins in an electric water pump I simply don't trust my engine on this device. Another cause of concern I have is when my alternator failed while I was driving I recorded very unusual voltage numbers jumping from 10-16.8 volts in odd patterns which could case problems for an electric vacuum pump.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Exhaust slashcut evacuation
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This is based upon the same Bernoulli effect mentioned before but uses exhaust gasses to draw out crankcase gasses instead.

    Their are 2 ways of doing this:

    1) Weld a slashcut tube in your waste-gate dump-tube
    2) Weld a slashcut tube in your exhaust



    In the first test I connected my Dewyer Magnehelic Pressure Gauge to the slashcut in my wastgate to measure the vacuum draw. As expected I only saw maximum vacuum drawn when the wastgate was open after reaching my maximum boost pressure set on my boost controller. The amount of vacuum went up from 0.25psi(0.5") to 0.4(0.8") vacuum. The numbers shown here were very similar to those shown with the Intake slashcut with the exception of being present when the wastgate started to open.


    I chose to connect my valve cover breather and top port (oem- not modified plugs) on my block to the waste-gate slashcut tube. Check valves aren't really needed here but you can use one if it make you feel better.


    For my second test I welding in a slashcut tube in my downpipe(12" from turbo). At first I had problems melting my high temp tubing with the heat from the downpipe and exhaust so I soldered together some copper pipe to solve this problem. I placed a check valve in-line on the top 6 inches of hose and wrapped it in reflective heat wrap as you can see.



    At Idle the Dewyer Magnehelic Pressure Gauge showed 0.1-0.2psi of vacuum. Driving around town was more unpredictable. The gauge would oscillate between positive pressure(when i tested without the check valve) to 0.5 psi (1") to 1.1 psi ((2.2"). It rarely displayed positive pressure but I could find no simple pattern either rpm or load dependent. Typically it would bounce around 0.6psi to 1psi.



    Here is a picture of the hose connected to the valve cover port without being tested. You definitely want to run a one way check valve in-line here.

    I purchased the check valve for 1 dollar at a local junkyard. You can find the check valve in-line on the brake booster line on any honda.

    Another source for a check valves and slashcut tubes(In case you don't feel like cutting your own is Moroso:


    Bottom Line


    Cost: 20-80 dollars (dependent upon if you have it welded or not)
    Performance: Great.
    Reliability: Great.
    Environment: Poor.
    Read more at http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=1199935

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intropy View Post
    Remove PCV, vent all 4 ports (draft tubes).

    Or, krank vents. Anything else is unnecessary.
    I think the stock pcv system works better than draft tubes (excluding high hp applications) in stock form (under 400hp) our pcv system vents the crankcase pretty well = less oil contamination but there is no vacuum in there never only air circulation.


    I had krank vents the bigger one failed
    positive pressure in the crankcase = bad = popped a dipstick = oil everywhere .
    When boosting krank vents do no good.They do create the desired vacuum in there but only when there is vacuum in the intake.


    If I get around installing the vacuum pump I would still want to have some air circulation in there like in stock form (pcv) and I "think" 15"-20" vacuum would be good .

    Last edited by mb7050; 02-25-2011 at 09:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve68 View Post
    Good motors don't pop dipsticks
    Good motors don't dribble at the filler cap.
    Good motors don't need the PCV system modifting.
    Good motors don't need krank vents.


    Steve
    If you run more that 18psi of boost I have noticed that stock pcv valve leaks ocassionally .

    and if you order this engine from mitsubishi it doesnt have pcv system on it, there must be a reason.
    Last edited by mb7050; 09-27-2010 at 06:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve68 View Post

    The best fix is to park it up and buy a cheap runabout until you can fix it properly rather to try a bandaid fix.

    Steve
    There is nothing wrong with my engine/car
    Last edited by mb7050; 09-27-2010 at 07:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Intropy View Post
    Remove PCV, vent all 4 ports (draft tubes).

    Or, krank vents. Anything else is unnecessary.
    I don’t really feel the stock system is very good. I’ve been thinking of doing this for a while. When under boost the valve closes and a lot of engines build up pressure in the crankcase causing pressure in the turbo oil return lines causing the turbo seal to leak. A guy I work with is an old school engine builder that owned a machine shop for years. They would build engines with custom rings that had less resistance and ran a vacuum pump like this. I believe something like this would not only prolong turbo life but engine life and improve performance. I have been thinking of tapping into the system somewhere and hooking up a pressure gauge to do some testing. I’m sure some engines could benefit more than others but I believe all would benefit some.
    Last edited by green-lantern; 09-27-2010 at 07:11 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by HilbillyHomeboy View Post
    I bet she smells of old mustard and sawdust.
    Jeremy

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