Base timing interpolation of stock ECU optimized igniton for AEM EMS... TUNING

[Sin'sVr4]

wtf is going on? this is starting to be just like 3si with all the flames. jer and ray have different techniques. Ray, i have no clue what you or Jer know in comparison, but i DO know its a whole hell of alot more than me. Ray have you tuned in denver at over a mile high in elevation? Im just asking. Is it the same as back home on the east coast? im sure things would be different am I correct? I do know that JFAST has and does tune quite successfully here in colorado. Try taking a car tuned for sea level and run it up 14,114ft to the top of pikes peak. Pretty sure shit is gonna react different no? Like I said, all that shit you guys are talking about is chinese to me, but lets kinda make it more simplified....

I think he was stating that this map with a completely stock vr4 would be fine. once you changed anything then yes, boom. He agrees no? I just dont like the serious negativity overall in this forum lately. not just this thread....

arent we here to share our knowledge and help one another, not shit on everything someone says, even if you dont agree with it totally. just a thought.




.....flame away

[Greg E]

Bullshit, yes they did. They are turned off on the 97-98's... maybe? But I doubt it.... otherwise how would you drive to the top of pikes peak running 10 pounds of boost and run 18 degress of timing with 15 in of Hg, you'd blow your heads off the car. But at 25 degrees it would be safe. Timing is comp'd nearly 5-10 degrees thruout the entire basemap of a stock ecu transitioning from sea level to relative 6000ft above sea level.

Okay........ WTF do I know? :shrug:

[J. Fast]

Okay........ WTF do I know? :shrug:

If your engine didn't have a baro comp it wouldn't even start if you drove from sea level to 10,000 ft. If you turned it off and parked it over night the next morning when you tried to start it would just crank and crank and crank and likely never fire. If by chance it did fire then it would hunt from 300 rpm to 700 rpm with a non compensated ignition timing number.

The less dense air you have, the farther away from 0 ideal timing is.

Somewhere between what appears to be a high altitude map and Greg's map is an ideal medium. I don't think Jeff's timing map on stealth316 is wrong. I also don't think Greg's map is wrong. But, obviosly there's a couple different base map looks out of the ECU.

[Greg E]

If your engine didn't have a baro comp it wouldn't even start if you drove from sea level to 10,000 ft. If you turned it off and parked it over night the next morning when you tried to start it would just crank and crank and crank and likely never fire. If by chance it did fire then it would hunt from 300 rpm to 700 rpm with a non compensated ignition timing number.

The less dense air you have, the farther away from 0 ideal timing is.

Somewhere between what appears to be a high altitude map and Greg's map is an ideal medium. I don't think Jeff's timing map on stealth316 is wrong. I also don't think Greg's map is wrong. But, obviosly there's a couple different base map looks out of the ECU.

Yes it would start. Load is a barometric pressure and temperature compensated unit calculated by the ecu to do its table lookups and eventually calculate IPW and ignition timing. Load will change based on baro pressure and thus IPW and timing are compensated. I'm not even going to get into the closed loop feature of the ecu which is yet, another real time fuel compensation feature of the ECU....

Are the stock maps ideal? Fuck no! I picked up 35whp from fine tuning them alone and not even touching the boost maps.

It's kind of rediculous that you're claiming the car shouldn't run with the way Mitsubishi programmed it to just to prove your argument. Obviously it does start, run and drive.... If you have your own Mitsubishi ROM disassembled and can show me code to prove the comp tables I posted are wrong, I'll stand corrected. The only place these mythical high altitude tables exist is in your imagination.

[Greg E]

BTW, I never said Jeff's timing map from the Spyder ecu was wrong. Just that the older loggers didn't display timing properly.

[Broomfield Racing]

Fuck you bud!

Fuck me? Who the hell are you? No need to take out your e-rage on me, you act just like drmbldr did lmao.

[zelstin]

Fuck me? Who the hell are you? No need to take out your e-rage on me, you act just like drmbldr did lmao.

[J. Fast]

Yes it would start. Load is a barometric pressure and temperature compensated unit calculated by the ecu to do its table lookups and eventually calculate IPW and ignition timing. Load will change based on baro pressure and thus IPW and timing are compensated. Are the stock maps ideal? Fuck no! I picked up 35whp from fine tuning them alone and not even touching the boost maps.

It's kind of rediculous that you're claiming the car shouldn't run with the way Mitsubishi programmed it to just to prove your argument. Obviously it does start, run and drive.... If you have your own Mitsubishi ROM disassembled and can show me code to prove the comp tables I posted are wrong, I'll stand corrected.

The stock ECU ignition trim always compensates the barometric pressure sensor. It appears as tho the intake air temp sensor, and the engine coolant temp sensor are trimmed when the purge control valve is set to full bleed. It purges and creates a wide open vac leak when the ait is 120 degrees or higher or the baro sensor normalizes a baro reading of 23in hg (7000ft relative elevation). The timing correction is likely not turned on unless the EGR sensor and purge control valve interface with the evap purge solenoid and tell it to switch to "on". I bet if you jumper the MFI relay output across the Evap purge solenoid the check in the ignition trim box reading "off" is turned "on". Wild guess, but I bet I'm right.

[Greg E]

The stock ECU ignition trim always compensates the barometric pressure sensor. It appears as tho the intake air temp sensor, and the engine coolant temp sensor are trimmed when the purge control valve is set to full bleed. It purges and creates a wide open vac leak when the ait is 120 degrees or higher or the baro sensor normalizes a baro reading of 23in hg (7000ft relative elevation). The timing correction is likely not turned on unless the EGR sensor and purge control valve interface with the evap purge solenoid and tell it to switch to "on". I bet if you jumper the MFI relay output across the Evap purge solenoid the check in the ignition trim box reading "off" is turned "on". Wild guess, but I bet I'm right.

Okay... Yes. The ecu always compensates igition for Baro pressure. The compensation factor is zero... I could show you the raw code for this but somehow you're just going to try and tell me it doesn't do what it says. Hate to break this to you as well, but there is no flag in the code for when this feature is active or not either.

Jumping the solenoids doesn't register any flags in the code anyway as they're all outputs. Same reason hot wiring the fuel pump doesn't register in the code either.

Purge and EGR are all RPM and Load based table lookups (with some kind of offset correction from the MDP). I can't remember off the top of my bead if it's Baro and temperature based load or not. Want to say it is... I'm actually in the process of writing up the functionality of these solenoids in the Chrome V2 manual right now. Purge only has a fuel correction comp factor but no ignition timing correction.

[J. Fast]

Okay... Yes. The ecu always compensates igition for Baro pressure. The compensation factor is zero... I could show you the raw code for this but somehow you're just going to try and tell me it doesn't do what it says. Hate to break this to you as well, but there is no flag in the code for when this feature is active or not either.

Jumping the solenoids doesn't register any flags in the code anyway as they're all outputs. Same reason hot wiring the fuel pump doesn't register in the code either.

Purge and EGR are all RPM and Load based table lookups (with some kind of offset correction from the MDP). I can't remember off the top of my bead if it's Baro and temperature based load or not. Want to say it is... I'm actually in the process of writing up the functionality of these solenoids in the Chrome V2 manual right now. Purge only has a fuel correction comp factor but no ignition timing correction.

So purge is just a fuel compensation off the the MAF or Map voltage then? It would seem like purge opens to generate a kpa drop. In my mind I'm thinking the bleed off effectively results in a density drop and a 10-20% kpa shift to move the ecu into to a more conservative timing number on the base timing map?