Virtual Dyno Chart of my 19T VR-4

Relevant mods...

Built Motor
Ported heads
JDM Gear
Fidanza Flywheel/Clutchmasters stage 3 clutch
MTC Ported 19T's--WRX converted 13T's running 6lbs of boost
Walbro 255 hotwired
Megan Downpipe/ebay 02 housings
running a stock VR4 rom on a flashed SL ecu...thanks Monochrome!

Stock injectors, 93 pump, stock catback, ABS/AWS/emissions delete...might be missing a few things...ill add later as I remember.

89 degrees and humid as heck...6lbs boost, 93 pump 3rd gear pulls starting from 2500 to 3000rpms to redline. I did 2 pulls.

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l.../firstlogs.jpg

Comments?? :)

Why 6 lbs? That's practically NA on a low compression 3.0l.

Its a starting point.

Its running 6lbs because I just put the car together this past winter due to spinning a bearing the first day I purchased the car. Aiming to have 15lbs of boost in a few days with evo 560 injectors and evo maf.

You can get away with a heck of a lot more than 15lbs with 560s, try closer to 18-20, dont sell your setup short. Especially if your built. Whats stopping you from 680's or 720's?

They're not even awake yet. 20+psi and they come alive. Turn the knob that controls boost... to the right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arm0red1

You can get away with a heck of a lot more than 15lbs with 560s, try closer to 18-20, dont sell your setup short. Especially if your built. Whats stopping you from 680's or 720's?

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Oh trust me, I'm not gonna spend all the $$ on everything else just to shortchange myself on the injectors...:p I had these lying around so thats why they are going on for the time being. :) I'll be purchasing 1000cc injectors very soon and a 2nd walbro when its needed

Didn't realize you were on stock injectors. You should be able to squeeze another 50+hp on the injectors though.

How many miles are on the engine? If it's broke in then by all means dial it up to 10-14 and do some logging. Stock injectors are fine for that.....that is if they are working correctly. Are the evo injectors flow tested? I won't trust any injectors I've bought that aren't new. If they haven't been, do yourself a favor and have them cleaned and tested. The peace of mind is so worth it. If one is spraying bad it can cost you that new build.

Yeah, I'll probably crank it up to 12-13lbs on the stock injectors and keep an eye on my IDC's before throwing in the injectors/maf...The only reason I wanted to even do this was because I wanted to get some baseline numbers for the fuel trims, timing, knock, load etc...

Green Lantern, I really appreciate the advice. :) The motor has about 3k hard miles on it...its been broken in already. Car has been running great for the past few months. The EVO injectors are not flow tested...they came off of my brothers evo 8 with 50k miles on it. I know they ran perfect on his car, they were removed because he went e85 and 1450cc injectors..lol...You still think I should flow test them? They are only temporary until I get some real injectors and a second walbro..for which I will need your guys' help again..

One thing to note, looking at my datalogs, my battery voltage is usually around 13.4 when cruising, idling, etc...under WOT right around 6k rpms battery voltage gradually comes down from 13.4 to about 12.9-12.8..any idea why? Ive got a brand new alternator and my battery is also relocated to the trunk FYI...no starting or charging problems either...

I guess if they are temporary and you know the history I wouldn't sweat it much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J. Fast

They're not even awake yet. 20+psi and they come alive. Turn the knob that controls boost... to the right.

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Its hard not to...lol

gonna crank her up to 12-14lbs of boost tonite...predictions??

PICKED UP ALMOST 100WHP from yesterday!! car feels goooood!! 13lbs boost!

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...zvr4/13lbs.jpg

Did you change the calculation for the new MR gears?

Yeah, its at 4.11 final drive instead of 3.9.

Looking good, keep cranking that boost up ;)

Really hard to draw much of a conclusion from these low boost pulls. From what I've seen, upgraded TD04 cars can make about 400 AWHP at 15-17 psi... Any idea what the ECU is reporting as peak ignition timing on these pulls? How confident are you that the system is pressure tight? At 20 psi, I'd be expecting ~450+... And that's when these cars start to feel REALLY good :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdamVR4

Really hard to draw much of a conclusion from these low boost pulls. From what I've seen, upgraded TD04 cars can make about 400 AWHP at 15-17 psi... Any idea what the ECU is reporting as peak ignition timing on these pulls? How confident are you that the system is pressure tight? At 20 psi, I'd be expecting ~450+... And that's when these cars start to feel REALLY good :)

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Oh yeah, Ive got all the good information you're looking for in my datalogs. I would LOVE it if I could get someone knowledgeable like yourself, opinion on the matter. Whats the best way to upload the excel file?? My intake side is TIGHT. 25lbs tested, no boost leaks. I'm going to retest again this week when I throw my injectors in.

3rd gear pull...Peak timing was 22 degrees near redline, steadily rose from 10 degrees when initially going WOT, temps outside was 75 degrees, zero knock the whole way, just had 2 counts exactly at 5968 rpms which dwindled down to 1 then zero by 6300 rpms...max injector duty cycle was 119.4, maximum load I touched was 179. What do you think??

Ok..some pictures of the stock lower Intake Manifold for you guys...

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...iezvr4/im1.jpg

An idea of how much material will be getting removed...which will be quite a bit. I'm gonna go get it ported the whole way up.
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...iezvr4/im2.jpg

The ports on my heads look HUGE compared to the lower plenum..which is why I"m so excited about this endeavor. I'm not sure if the pictures are telling the same story as my own 2 eyes.
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...gejpeg_2-2.jpg

I'll have pictures up in a day or two showing the results of port matching the plenums to the heads. :)

Doesn't look too pretty yet but its a work in progress...Don't know how much it will help(yet) but I'm sure it wont hurt! I"m going to try and go in as far as I can but due to not having too many tools to work with(porting tools) I'll be limited to going in about an inch or two into the runners. I'm also going to match the TB gasket.
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ezvr4/11-1.jpg

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ezvr4/21-1.jpg

Its going surprisingly quick..I've got a good 1hr into it so far...I think with a good 3hrs into it, with smoothing it out it should be good to go. :)

Finished.

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ezvr4/22-2.jpg

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ezvr4/23-1.jpg

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...miezvr4/25.jpg

The TB wont need to be ported. Its the same size as the gasket already. I'll have results for you guys in a few days.

The lower manifold is easy too, you should've done it yourself :)

I don't think I'll be able to get the angles right...man now you're making me second guess myself..lol.

Alright fellas...time for an update! :o

Vitals:
68 degree temps
gasket matched upper/lower plenums
added evo 560 injectors
raised redline to 8000rpms
pressure tested to 25lbs-NO leaks
all runs done in 3rd gear from appx 3000rpms

The purpose of these pulls were to see if the porting did anything to help increase power and of course to test the new injector install and make sure things are ok. 13lbs of boost tapering to 12 by redline- untouched since the last time
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ntakepulls.jpg

I did 2 pulls, made sure it was a flat smooth surface with no dips. Take it for what its worth, my reaction...I think its a little generous...mainly due to the change in temperature. Almost a 10 degree difference between these pulls and last time. Also I think for someone with ported heads this helps more. A stock head car would probably see less gains IMO. I'm no expert though, just throwing out my .02. I did compensate for the temp change in VD by altering the SAE correction. With no correction the hp numbers went up by 3-4. Car feels good :thumbsup:

Since there were no hiccups, I decided to crank up the boost :D Next pull was 15lb spike holding 14 to redline
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...14lbsboost.jpg

No problems there, so I turned the MBC up another 1/2 turn which ended up being a 17lb spike tapering to 15lbs :) I didn't go past this because I saw 4 counts of knock at 5000rpms, which did taper down to 2 by 6k and 0 by 7k rpms. After this I turned the MBC back a 1/4 turn so on pump 93 its running a 16lb spike tapering to 15lbs. Almost in the 400whp club! :cool:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...15w17spike.jpg

Next up is to tune the car. The car is still running on the factory fuel and timing maps. I'm hoping I can tune out the knock that im seeing, its not much, but I'd rather not have any at all. Anyone know why the car is seeing knock? Twizted 3kgt, your car also knocked in the same area, any ideas why? Maybe someone like Ray can chime in who deals with these cars on a daily basis? Anyone wanna guess how much HP I will pick up by altering the fuel/timing maps? :p

some other important numbers FYI...
Max Injector duty cycle: 81.94 at 7500rpms
Max 2bye load is 188.1 near 5000rpms

Nomie

Did you put the evo maf in yet?

maybe i forgot to update this thread, but yes I am running the evo maf now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NOMIEZVR-4

EVO MAF installed. No noticeable difference in driveability...changed settings in ECUflash, car runs and starts just like stock. Shouldn't have a problem with over 400hp now that the stock MAF is out. Supposedly the stock airflow sensor is only good till 400hp then airflow readings get wacky for those that are not aware.

Stock on left:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ezvr4/22-1.jpg

Installed:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...miezvr4/11.jpg

Installation was straight forward, pin1 to pin1, pin2 to pin2, etc...7 wires altogether. Took about 1/2hr to install.

BTW, ill be weighing my car one of these days...its very important to me.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by NOMIEZVR4

Alright fellas...time for an update! :o

Vitals:
68 degree temps
gasket matched upper/lower plenums
added evo 560 injectors
raised redline to 8000rpms
pressure tested to 25lbs-NO leaks
all runs done in 3rd gear from appx 3000rpms

The purpose of these pulls were to see if the porting did anything to help increase power and of course to test the new injector install and make sure things are ok. 13lbs of boost tapering to 12 by redline- untouched since the last time
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ntakepulls.jpg

I did 2 pulls, made sure it was a flat smooth surface with no dips. Take it for what its worth, my reaction...I think its a little generous...mainly due to the change in temperature. Almost a 10 degree difference between these pulls and last time. Also I think for someone with ported heads this helps more. A stock head car would probably see less gains IMO. I'm no expert though, just throwing out my .02. I did compensate for the temp change in VD by altering the SAE correction. With no correction the hp numbers went up by 3-4. Car feels good :thumbsup:

Since there were no hiccups, I decided to crank up the boost :D Next pull was 15lb spike holding 14 to redline
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...14lbsboost.jpg

No problems there, so I turned the MBC up another 1/2 turn which ended up being a 17lb spike tapering to 15lbs :) I didn't go past this because I saw 4 counts of knock at 5000rpms, which did taper down to 2 by 6k and 0 by 7k rpms. After this I turned the MBC back a 1/4 turn so on pump 93 its running a 16lb spike tapering to 15lbs. Almost in the 400whp club! :cool:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...15w17spike.jpg

Next up is to tune the car. The car is still running on the factory fuel and timing maps. I'm hoping I can tune out the knock that im seeing, its not much, but I'd rather not have any at all. Anyone know why the car is seeing knock? Twizted 3kgt, your car also knocked in the same area, any ideas why? Maybe someone like Ray can chime in who deals with these cars on a daily basis? Anyone wanna guess how much HP I will pick up by altering the fuel/timing maps? :p

some other important numbers FYI...
Max Injector duty cycle: 81.94 at 7500rpms
Max 2bye load is 188.1 near 5000rpms

Nomie

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Ah wasn't subscribed to this thread! The knock I was getting was being caused by the severe drop and jump the stock timing map makes in that area, make it a smooth progression and it should go away.

I've found my 19t's make peak torque between 4k-5k, so timing may have to be lowered there to compensate, but that also depends on how much boost you have it set for. I just began trying lower boost with more timing and a good AFR today. On lowered timing and 24psi (holding 22psi to redline) of boost (yes on straight 93 with no knock on heat soaked runs) I was able to hit 450whp/480wtq. Thats with timing maxing out at 19* by 7k and a LOW 10 afr. 2byteload was hitting over 250 (the highest I've seen). Now I'm trying to work my way up there with boost at 17 psi and a good AFR, so far I've ran 24* of timing by 7k without issue, but I need to play with it quite a bit more to have any real information for you. Adding AFR changes into the mix makes things more time consuming. So far the highest I've seen is 390/415, but I've been making steady progress.

The pig rich high boost tune was easy, but not healthy, I want a healthy tune. Plus these L wheel 19ts seem to run out of steam at 22psi, as was foretold by someone here the other day. Heatsoaked that is, on a cold run they'll hold 24-25psi right to redline.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TwIzTeD_3kGt

Ah wasn't subscribed to this thread! The knock I was getting was being caused by the severe drop and jump the stock timing map makes in that area, make it a smooth progression and it should go away.

I've found my 19t's make peak torque between 4k-5k, so timing may have to be lowered there to compensate, but that also depends on how much boost you have it set for. I just began trying lower boost with more timing and a good AFR today. On lowered timing and 24psi (holding 22psi to redline) of boost (yes on straight 93 with no knock on heat soaked runs) I was able to hit 450whp/480wtq. Thats with timing maxing out at 19* by 7k and a LOW 10 afr. 2byteload was hitting over 250 (the highest I've seen). Now I'm trying to work my way up there with boost at 17 psi and a good AFR, so far I've ran 24* of timing by 7k without issue, but I need to play with it quite a bit more to have any real information for you. Adding AFR changes into the mix makes things more time consuming. So far the highest I've seen is 390/415, but I've been making steady progress.

The pig rich high boost tune was easy, but not healthy, I want a healthy tune. Plus these L wheel 19ts seem to run out of steam at 22psi, as was foretold by someone here the other day. Heatsoaked that is, on a cold run they'll hold 24-25psi right to redline.

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Thread Revival..:p

Yeah all the numbers generated above were on stock fuel/timing maps. Due to having much larger injectors now, I've had to pretty much start from zero because right out of the box, with fuel trims set I wasn't able to make a complete WOT pull without having to take away a bunch of fuel during a pull...Plus I have cams now so that changes things a bit too. Right now I'm in the middle of doing pump 93 pulls but haven't cranked the boost up yet..I'm sitting at 360whp at 13lbs with a fat 10's AFR and stock timing map. Its a work in progress...when I hit the 15-16lb area and begin to knock, I will pull some timing from the map...I'm keeping an eye on your thread too!! :D I was planning to go out tonite to tweak the tune some more but I'm actually trying a different approach on altering the WOT tune using the VE table more and the HI fuel table less..I'll keep you posted as I make progress.

So when you made your 450whp at 22lbs why didn't you go leaner on the pull? Knock im assuming? Just for reference, at 13lbs I'm touching 170 load..but really..its not about the boost its about the airflow/load as Greg as stated...

So let me get this straight..you did the high boost, conservative timing thing...it resulted in the 450/480 numbers...now you're attempting to do more timing and less boost to see how far that can get you? Both on 93 pump of course...It will be interesting. It still bugs me that Ray made what...480whp with the 13T's and we're here struggling to hit that with bigger turbos and same boost...:p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NOMIEZVR4

Thread Revival..:p

Yeah all the numbers generated above were on stock fuel/timing maps. Due to having much larger injectors now, I've had to pretty much start from zero because right out of the box, with fuel trims set I wasn't able to make a complete WOT pull without having to take away a bunch of fuel during a pull...Plus I have cams now so that changes things a bit too. Right now I'm in the middle of doing pump 93 pulls but haven't cranked the boost up yet..I'm sitting at 360whp at 13lbs with a fat 10's AFR and stock timing map. Its a work in progress...when I hit the 15-16lb area and begin to knock, I will pull some timing from the map...I'm keeping an eye on your thread too!! :D I was planning to go out tonite to tweak the tune some more but I'm actually trying a different approach on altering the WOT tune using the VE table more and the HI fuel table less..I'll keep you posted as I make progress.

So when you made your 450whp at 22lbs why didn't you go leaner on the pull? Knock im assuming? Just for reference, at 13lbs I'm touching 170 load..but really..its not about the boost its about the airflow/load as Greg as stated...

So let me get this straight..you did the high boost, conservative timing thing...it resulted in the 450/480 numbers...now you're attempting to do more timing and less boost to see how far that can get you? Both on 93 pump of course...It will be interesting. It still bugs me that Ray made what...480whp with the 13T's and we're here struggling to hit that with bigger turbos and same boost...:p

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Holy 2012 lol whoops! Was looking for your fuel trim thread and saw this one haha.

As for why I didn't go leaner, mainly because I hadn't touched the fuel map at all and my fuel trims weren't really worked out. It was just a 'turn up the boost, turn down the timing until it doesn't knock' tune. I stopped altogether because the turbos stopped giving more sustained boost and I wanted normal AFR's to see if launch control would still flood out. Plus I really didn't like the way I went about it the first time. Too rushed. So I backed fuel pressure off to stock and started fresh, the right way. I've spent about 4 hours on it today. Low and mid FT are good, AFR is MUCH more acceptable (high 11's spool, mid 11's peak, low 11's redline), and the boost is at 17psi with 23* of timing up top, 15* around peak torque. Ended today with 405hp/402tq as heatsoaked as I could get it (which doesn't take long on this cxracing front mount), will do more tomorrow.

And hey, if us amateurs could do what Ray can do, he'd be out of a job! :p

Definitely keep us especially me posted...its nice to be able to compare numbers/scenarios especially when going into uncharted territory..

I figured I'd post an update here since I sorta posted an update on 3si...

e85 running 19lbs of boost stock timing maps on both runs...the dip in the 2nd run is due to bump in the road..2nd run is also a bit leaner AFR. Both runs are Mid 11's tapering to Hi 10's....these are just preliminary runs.

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps83c8c5c8.jpg

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps543e8716.jpg

Lookin good! Surprised you aren't breaking up with AFR's in the 10's on e85. Most target 12.0-12.2.

Do you have an e85 pull at the same boost level and timing as 93 that you could overlay? Would love to see if it added any hp with all else being equal.

I'm sure I have a datalog but my wife was initially logging and making changes on ECUFlash so I didn't get a chance to label the initial runs...I"ll look though. Just gotta figure out which one it is.

Yeah surprisingly, its got no breakup at all. Pulls pretty good the whole way through. I WILL lean it out to 12.1 to 12.2..;)

I *THINK* this is it...the higher number is pump...the lower is e85..keep in mind this was pretty rich initially because I still had to alter my injector scaling settings as I kept tuning..

http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps7c8c0bc5.jpg

I noticed you are running evo9 maf(399)

just wanted to point out that the scaling and smoothing tables are slightly different from evo 8 maf.

(this should be something Greg should be pointing out in his faq's)

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ces/399maf.jpg

remember to change in "edit map defentions" to the scalings "airflow8" and "unit16" before you make the changes.

I didn't know evo 9's had different scalings for the MAF. What are the part numbers for the evo 8 MAF's? I thought they were 399?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ange

I noticed you are running evo9 maf(399)

just wanted to point out that the scaling and smoothing tables are slightly different from evo 8 maf.

(this should be something Greg should be pointing out in his faq's)

http://i615.photobucket.com/albums/t...ces/399maf.jpg

remember to change in "edit map defentions" to the scalings "airflow8" and "unit16" before you make the changes.

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interesting, first I've heard that. If the car is tuned already I'd just leave it alone though, it doesn't matter what specific values you use as long as you get the afr and load reasonable (to have your timing fall in line).

They are both 399 MAF's, as far as part numbers go. I have seen Evo 9 mafs go 0.8-1.5 points leaner on a Evo 8's. First we thought it was the head flow, and turbo flow is why the scaling were different, but as soon as 9 mafs started going onto 8's and they were leaner the explanation became that the part numbers are the same but the series are different....Kinda died there and really hasn't been looked into to much after that.

So if part numbers are same, how to determine if its from an 8 or 9?