no judgment, just the facts: my GZP experience

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hans@GZP

If you want to keep bringing it up, then start a new thread about our dealings. If not, then shut it. You're just beating around a burning bush trying to make yourself look good, when in reality you will look like a fool after you post up about our transaction.

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1. i bought 2 used cranks from GZP with the proviso that they could be suitably reground for continued use. cranks arrive and are delivered to my machinist.

2. the letter from the machinist as to the condition of said cranks.
Attachment 3146

3. cranks are return shipped to GZP. after inspection of said cranks, GZP stonewalls on refunding my money, even though they already have their cranks back in their possession.

4. i am forced to file a chargeback with my credit-card for the amount of the transaction, and am additionally out $30 from the cost of return shipping.

i consider this matter resolved as well as it possibly can be.

On a good note, sounds like you've found a good machine shop. Would have been interesting to see what some of the random shops around might have said. I've taken 4 different cranks recently to AMS (the only shop I trust around here). 1 was good for .010 regrind (about 1k miles after another machine shop built the short block, every journal a different size) 2 useless and 1 ready to clean and polish.

Cranks were taken to our machine shop which said they were machinable. Cranks were also checked out by Ray Pampena who also said they were machinable.

Chargeback was found in our favor for a reason.

Those cranks are currently at my machine shop with the rest of my cranks so they can be machined.

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._8127001_n.jpg

ray did NOT have machine tools to examine those cranks at the time they were presented. by his own admission, he could not give an authoritative evaluation because of this limitation.

even IF the parts were 100% kosher (which i've documented to the contrary), the laws of good business say that when a customer returns a product--in the exact same condition it was purchased in--you offer a refund.

fwiw, i've heard NOTHING from my credit-card company suggesting that the chargeback was invalidated. i can (and will if necessary) provide additional data (pm's and such) to back my case and to validate the chargeback--if i am required to do so. so far, i've had no correspondence informing me of that contingency.

i've already eaten the $35-40 return-shipping cost. and imho, continuing to "fight" this issue about as much of a dick move as a company can make--since you'd essentially keep $330 of my money AND the shoddy product you sent me.

p.s.
you noted the "the cranks are back with the others, waiting to be machined". i hope everyone takes note of this. i implicitly trust what my machinist documented--and that being the case, any customer who ends up with one of these cranks--once machined--has a potential catastrophe on his/her hands.

Well, that's your one machinist's opinion. My machinist is also qualified to do the work in which you told me that "I am in cahoots with them". You wanted crankshafts that were machinable. You didn't express that .030 was not acceptable. I sold you items in which you wanted. We said we would offer a refund, or return the items to you, pending other machinist and professionals opinions.

We don't sell crap, and we stand behind every product we sell (new or used). I'm also not going to refund you on a used part because you had a sudden "change of heart". I'll let Emilie chime in when she's back from helping her mother out. She had all of the correspondences with you throughout this transaction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hans@GZP

Well, that's your one machinist's opinion. My machinist is also qualified to do the work in which you told me that "I am in cahoots with them". You wanted crankshafts that were machinable. You didn't express that .030 was not acceptable. I sold you items in which you wanted. We said we would offer a refund, or return the items to you, pending other machinist and professionals opinions.

We don't sell crap, and we stand behind every product we sell (new or used). I'm also not going to refund you on a used part because you had a sudden "change of heart". I'll let Emilie chime in when she's back from helping her mother out. She had all of the correspondences with you throughout this transaction.

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i'd like to highlight that. that's one proviso that's rather unusual for ANY business. unfortunately for me, the machinist was not mutually agreed upon...and the one individual that might have been able to offer some clarity on the situation was not able to utilize machine tools to evaluate the goods.

i never had a "change of heart". from day 1--well before i even looked at GZP for these parts--i needed to get cranks that could be rebuilt to withstand substantial abuse. unlike what em accused me of, this had nothing to do with a "flip it and get rich" scheme. the nitriding/cryo-treatment process i need for my own crank has certain minimums for the process. the only way to recoup ANY of that additional cost (above and beyond what is required for my own crank) was to add additional cranks to the batch. due to the additional cost from the treatment process, utilizing new cranks would have resulted in treated cranks which would never sell--due to the price premium over OEM. the whole idea was to find used cranks that could be rebuilt; and within a price range that would allow them to be resold after treatment without taking a loss.

i've never once had any desire to make money off this. this project has always been about my own car, and acquiring the parts i need to accomplish my own build.

thanks for the smear campaign though.


p.s.
it also seems clear to me that you pulled the crappiest-condition parts that you "felt" met minimum standard. i personally would not be willing to utilize either of those cranks--after regrind--in even an n/a application--let alone the high-hp application that they would need to withstand; as no one would be buying a treated crank just so they could "go easy on it".

You agreed that they were machinable. You specifically said that you would accept the cranks if Ray personally endorsed them, which was not stated in your "wanted" thread. If you wanted Ray-endorsed-800hp cranks, then maybe you should have bought them from Ray. When I get home, I will post the exact same screen shots that I sent to paypal and your credit card company.

Even your credit card company found in our favor and returned the $330 to us that you tried doing a chargeback on. I am still willing to offer you a store credit for your original purchase price on any in stock items. Same terms that I offered in my last communication with you.

You received what you paid for. Any further reply from me will have to wait until next week when I am back in town and can get.to my computer.

ray's PM to me:

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hey man, i looked at the cranks. obviously i cant magnaflux them nor properly measure them in the parking lot. but, to me... they both need to be cut .010 on the mains. one crank needs .030 on the rods and the other looks to need .020. if theres no cracks and they are not bent, id run them in any rebuild. they are crank cores that need to be cut to near .030... so i guess they are what they are.

if i was building an 800hp engine id start with a standard crank preferably new. if these cranks magnaflux good they should be ok to use if you dont mind an undersized one

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note the part i've bolded--which is in conflict with my machinist's note that BOTH cranks were bent.

the cranks were not machineable; not by me, not by my machinist. if you feel you can salvage them, teriffic--more power to you. they were not serviceable for me, and i asked for a refund. i was offered "store credit" instead. even if i were to find something from GZP that i'd needed for this build (i didn't), i'm loathe to continue this charade of business with GZP after my experience.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...PM_3_25_11.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...Thadd_PM_2.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...Thadd_PM_5.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...Thadd_PM_4.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...Thadd_PM_3.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...Thadd_PM_7.jpg

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...Thadd_PM_6.jpg


There were additional PM's in between these, and I can post those if necessary. However, these PM's above addressed the major points of the transaction.

He also did file a chargeback with his credit card company, however, his credit card company reversed his chargeback, and refunded us the complete amount of the transaction. Even his own credit card company did not find a basis for his chargeback.

So, at this point, Thadd, we still have your $330. We are willing to give you a used parts store credit (as was offered to you well before all of this), minus the original shipping charges, and we are waiving the restocking fee.

as i stated, i have ZERO interest in store credit from GZP. my premonition--as i've stated--is that even if i were to find goods from GZP which "might" be of some use, i would likely find them in marginal condition at best.

as i've stated, my chargeback was NOT invalidated. the amount was NOT filed back against my balance, and the letter from my machinist was never responded to with any type of statement suggesting that it was singularly insufficient for the merits of said chargeback. i have no desire to explore the matter further, as i've gotten what i consider to be the best possible remaining resolution to this matter at this time.

We have always stood behind our products, and the advertised condition of them. You received what you paid for, machinable cranks. you did not request Ray-endorsed 800hp cranks, you asked for machinable... which they were. We are offering you a store credit for used parts, minus the original shipping charges. We do not offer refunds on used parts. We are also waiving the restocking fee that would normally apply to an exchange.

The paypal dispute was resolved in our favor, and the money was returned to our account on August 26th, screen caption below of my paypal dispute log.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...IPD/thadd1.jpg

IPD, while you may not want to use the store credit maybe you can find someone that needs/wants something from GZP and work out a deal where they pay you and you purchase the item with your credit?

EM, maybe you could offer some gift certs? that he could trade/sell to someone that would use them?

I could consider doing used-parts gift certificates with the notation that shipping is not included in the certificate price.

i can machine a turd, but that doesn't mean it's worth a damn. just saying.

You asked for spun bearing cranks that can be machined... SPUN BEARING.... I just wanted to emphasize that for a moment.... We picked the best of our spun-bearing bunch. I am really not sure what you expected to receive....

I'm going to try and help her. if its not wanted just say so.

I think the positions of both sides in this situation are pretty clear. I'm not going to weight in on who is right/wrong.

The way I see things is GZP is offering a parts credit.

IPD wants a refund and not a credit.

Lets try to focus ad see how we cna bring some kind of resolution to the table rather than focusing on how we got here.

Thad is the idea of a GZP used parts only gift cert one you could work with? I think this could work as you do not seem inclined to take the credit?

just goes to show never buy a spun bearing crank ..