Look at these HEADS! Whoever on 3si sold Trev this car... You sir are an a-hole!

He's put like 10 miles on it since he had it shipped. Car wouldn't hold a tune for shit so we ran a compression on it. All cylinders below 100. So I took it apart and here's some sweet shots of some BS!

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...3s/photo33.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...3s/photo32.jpg

Lets do some measuring... and we won't go into thousandths...

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...o3s/photo6.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...3s/photo52.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...o3s/photo4.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...o3s/photo3.jpg

Wait, it gets better!

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...3s/photo62.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...3s/photo34.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...o3s/photo5.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...3s/photo24.jpg

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...3s/photo13.jpg



F_U Buddy! You stole this kids money!

Any chance of you naming the previous owner or a link to the FS page?

Hmmm, mix and match

Edit: WTH? I posted before I saw all the pics. WTH is with the guides?

Wow... Yea thats some shady shit!!!

I have no idea what I'm looking at...looks like an average set of heads....

Valves don't match. The geometry is all wrong, the stem to guide clearance is incorrect, the lash is incorrect, and it's even missing valve guides. Every cylinder has a different fill rate and either a different diameter intake valve or exhaust valve than any other cylinder. Look at the first two pics, the valves aren't even a matched set. Some exhaust valves are 30mm some are 30.75mm. Intake valves have a 1mm difference. All the valves that have V3T stamp are a matched set. The ones that dont have the stamp don't match anything and they have almost 1mm difference. These heads and this car were hacked back together and pawn'd off to somebody, that's indeed very shady!

It would be nice to get a name so people won't buy from the guy and get ripped.

Holy shit...that's a hack job and a half. :(

Jeremy

Any idea what the deal is with the rest of the engine? Did this guy work on the block? I'm a bit worried if all the cylinders compression is down that this guy isn't going to get by with a new set of heads. I can't believe somebody would mix valves like that. Tragic!


It looks like he tried to port the heads with the valves in. lol

who sold the heads? or if you could tell me what trevor's 3si name is, I can probably find the transaction myself.

Wow... I think he'll probably be ok once he gets the heads rebuilt though. I had a cam gear slip on me once, and it just barely contacted one valve on the front bank. I had happened to do a compression test about a week before, and all my cylinders were 165-168. After my one valve barely made contact (and being the right sized valve as well!) compression dropped to 156 in that cylinder. It doesn't take much.

If he can't get those fixed... Reach out to me .. I may be willing to part ways with a set that I have. Just pay shipping to help a member out.

Wow, what a hack job, I've never seen a set of heads slapped together like that. That car must have been running like shit

That's sad, but over the years I have seen worse, in cars coming from shops that couldn't figure out why the car wouldn't start and or run after they rebuilt it. Only to find it was all jacked and needed a complete rebuild.

Keeps shops like us in business, but I would rather be upgrading then spending even more of the customer's money to re rebuild it.

-Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by green-lantern

Any idea what the deal is with the rest of the engine? Did this guy work on the block? I'm a bit worried if all the cylinders compression is down that this guy isn't going to get by with a new set of heads. I can't believe somebody would mix valves like that. Tragic!


It looks like he tried to port the heads with the valves in. lol

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A couple of other things I noticed when I pulled the heads, one of the the (2) main freeze caps located in one of the heads is stripped. The second thing was it looked like the deck height was never checked or something else? You can see bare metal on the crown edges of one of the pistons where it had been colliding with the pad on the head. There's no carbon residual at all. It's bare metal to bare metal. No heavy dimpling in the main portion of the piston just absolute 100% smacking metal to metal around the raised perimeter edges of the piston.

All bets are off on what the bottm end looks like. There was no metal in the oil pan or oil filter. I'm expecting to find a bent crank, busted wrist pin, or damaged rod on that cylinder when I get into the bottom end later on.

Going to do some more digging in it later and take more pics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ninja Performance

That's sad, but over the years I have seen worse, in cars coming from shops that couldn't figure out why the car wouldn't start and or run after they rebuilt it. Only to find it was all jacked and needed a complete rebuild.

Keeps shops like us in business, but I would rather be upgrading then spending even more of the customer's money to re rebuild it.

-Chris

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This is why I do my own work. There has to be some way to manage someone advertising a car for sale. Maybe require a pre-purchase inspection to avoid prblems like this. Unfortunately I don't do this for a living, I do it for a hobby. Now it's turning into doing it for a 2nd job :( .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbest671

who sold the heads? or if you could tell me what trevor's 3si name is, I can probably find the transaction myself.

---

1997Gtx

This dude seriously needs a dick smack in the face!!!! I could never knowingly sell a car that ran like shit/had these problems to someone who didnt know.. Wow that takes some kind of person.

The heads came with the car, I didn't buy just the heads separately. His name is 1997GTX aka Adam Rudolph, but he said he bought the heads second hand he when I bought the car (whether that is true or not, I have no idea). The heads weren't the selling point of the car when I bought it so I just took his word for it, and didn't really feel like digging into it to check if they were in fact DR Stage 3 heads.

I sent him an email with the pictures attached so we'll see if I get a response. He hasn't logged into 3si in a long time last I checked, so it's unlikely anyone will be able to contact him through there.

When I bought my car I knew the rear turbo was out. I didn't know and supposedly the previous owner on 3SI didn't know the engine was bad too. I only found out after I bought the car when I was going to swap in two new turbos that the center mains were spun. The engine wasn't knocking when it was running and I don't recall what the oil pressure was because I moved the car literally 20 feet under it's own power since I bought it 1.5 years ago, but the gauge wasn't flashing the warning light. If I hadn't taken things apart to do it right the first time, but instead just swapped in a rear turbo I would have had bad turbos and a bad engine so I'm glad I found it before I started driving around the car. All this time and thousands of dollars later I'm almost finished. It sucks finding things on a car that was completely unexpected. :(

wow, amazing it ran like that. What did the valves sound like with no guides on some of them?

Looks like LMI is building heads now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by J. Fast

A couple of other things I noticed when I pulled the heads, one of the the (2) main freeze caps located in one of the heads is stripped. The second thing was it looked like the deck height was never checked or something else? You can see bare metal on the crown edges of one of the pistons where it had been colliding with the pad on the head. There's no carbon residual at all. It's bare metal to bare metal. No heavy dimpling in the main portion of the piston just absolute 100% smacking metal to metal around the raised perimeter edges of the piston.

All bets are off on what the bottm end looks like. There was no metal in the oil pan or oil filter. I'm expecting to find a bent crank, busted wrist pin, or damaged rod on that cylinder when I get into the bottom end later on.

Going to do some more digging in it later and take more pics.

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That's insane!

Every time I look at the pics I see more and more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frostedbutts

The heads came with the car, I didn't buy just the heads separately. His name is 1997GTX aka Adam Rudolph, but he said he bought the heads second hand he when I bought the car (whether that is true or not, I have no idea). The heads weren't the selling point of the car when I bought it so I just took his word for it, and didn't really feel like digging into it to check if they were in fact DR Stage 3 heads.

I sent him an email with the pictures attached so we'll see if I get a response. He hasn't logged into 3si in a long time last I checked, so it's unlikely anyone will be able to contact him through there.

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He said they were DR3 heads? WOW!

I take this was the car ad? I don't know how I read the title wrong, I thought you just bought the heads :Doh:

3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

How long ago was this car purchased? It's a bit of an old thread.

Engine hasn't run straight since I first saw it in May/June of last year, a couple of weeks before Pike's Peak Hill Climb as I remember. Had peak power development problems i.e. wouldn't hold any boost what-so-ever. The engine also had starting problems, occasionally smoked, rough idle, stuttered on tip in, and kept dying.

Trev parked it for longer than I care to remember while he was saving money to afford to dig into it. When he had enough money saved he dropped it off to get an alignment prior to setting up a dyno tuning pre-inspect session only to have the alignment place he dropped it off to call him and tell him "We started you car and there's a problem. It sounds like a bag of hammers!"

He towed it away called me up and I came by and dug into it at his home. What I found was all cylinders compression under 100 and so the car sat, and has sat, and sat... and sat till time and money afforded the opportunity to dig into it. Opening it up after it's been sitting for months and months we come discover why. This "Adam guy" pulled some shady ass shit!

I don't think for one second those are DR Heads, as do I believe the Adam was clueless to the condition of this abortion. He bought the heads "second hand" and bolted them on like that and sold the car? Car supposedly only needed to be "tuned for altitude"? What a crock! Who bolts on heads that look like that? Another question directed for concern?

WHERE'S THE FRIGGIN CHUNKS OF METAL FROM THE MISSING VALVE TRAIN PARTS?

Not in the oil filter, not in the pan, not in the cylinders, not in the galleys, not in the valve cover, and not in the engine. It didn’t happen on this owners watch. Regardless of the time that's passed, YOU SOLD THIS CAR WITH CRAP ASS HEADS LIKE THIS AND DIDN'T SAY SHIT!

Anyway, the amount of time that's passed doesn't matter and it won't change anything. What's done is done. Unfortunately the remaining pieces of the car have been parted to recoup the financial burden to my friend. With any hope the donor parts will give breath back to other 3/S needing restoration.

Just a sad affirmation that there are people out there who are more interested in pawning there burdens off on others and lining their pockets with money. Where I grew up, we call them "hustlers".

Anyway, back to the show (downloading as we speak), time for more pictures :)

I don't think anybody would think these are DR heads, even the seller. He pawned off some bull shit on your buddy, no doubt about that.

Here's a picture of that piston/head I was concerned about. This is not normal correct? Is this a deck height issue? No other pistons have this signature? Some help on failure analysis would be great and things to examine that need to be looked at would be great everyone. Thanks ahead of time

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...2811_001-1.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...032811_006.jpg

The milky haze on the piston crowns, is that from flamefront, puddling fuel, improper comubustion chamber mixture... what is this?

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...032811_002.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...032811_003.jpg

Other bank...

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...2811_004-1.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...2811_005-1.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...032811_006.jpg

This stripped plug from the valve cover side, what is the technical term for this?

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...2811_009-1.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...032811_008.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dbest671

I take this was the car ad? I don't know how I read the title wrong, I thought you just bought the heads :Doh:

3000GT/Stealth International Message Center

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That's it, yes. Could you give me the email associated with his seller account by chance?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by green-lantern

That's insane!

Every time I look at the pics I see more and more.



He said they were DR3 heads? WOW!

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Man it's sad, you dont know how many times things like this happen, people use our name to try and sell there junk. We have had cars come in here that people bought already modded with problems saying that "the car had DR stage 3 heads, and DR650's" and we get it apart and it has neither. Or like the guy that was selling "dr650's" on E-bay yrs ago with a add saying something like "never got a chance to use them, my loss your gain" But he seemed to have a endless supply of them and sold tuns of them. Ne "never got the chance" to use like 20 sets of turbos ? lol

And come on bought the heads that way and just installed them thinking they were our heads? lol The vales in those pics with the lettering on them are STOCK mitsu valves, DR stage 3 heads do not have stock valves, everybody knows that. And look at that nasty port work, come on he would have to be brain dead to think those were ours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Frostedbutts

That's it, yes. Could you give me the email associated with his seller account by chance?

---

PM sent

Can you post up a better pic of the rear right piston? It looks damaged to me

i know at my age eyesight is suspect but are the valve guides protruding out of the head?

From the seller... "At ESP, everything was disassembled and reassembled"

Who is Enhanced Street Performance ( Contact Information ) ? Hopefully they're not responsible for this gem. If they are.... obviously, stay very very very far away from there!

Expecting a return call on those Stage 3 DR Heads so sweetly depicted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnakeSkinner

Man it's sad, you dont know how many times things like this happen, people use our name to try and sell there junk. We have had cars come in here that people bought already modded with problems saying that "the car had DR stage 3 heads, and DR650's" and we get it apart and it has neither. Or like the guy that was selling "dr650's" on E-bay yrs ago with a add saying something like "never got a chance to use them, my loss your gain" But he seemed to have a endless supply of them and sold tuns of them. Ne "never got the chance" to use like 20 sets of turbos ? lol

And come on bought the heads that way and just installed them thinking they were our heads? lol The vales in those pics with the lettering on them are STOCK mitsu valves, DR stage 3 heads do not have stock valves, everybody knows that. And look at that nasty port work, come on he would have to be brain dead to think those were ours.

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I guess it's part of being successful Matt. We all know those are not your heads and I'm about positive the seller knew those weren't DR heads. I wouldn't be surprised if he bent a bunch of valves and just put that crap together himself (with a shitty attempt of a port job). Unfortunately pricks like this will use a successful name to try and rip people off. Not like he would advertise heads built by LMI. ha ha

I emailed them over these lovely pictures. Maybe they have some build pictures of their own. If not, Mr. Adam sir you have some explanin' to do.

Turn on "invisible mode" Mr. Adam.

In for the explaination on this... Really this hurts more than just the people from DR, but also the community as a whole.. As much as our group(3s) is stuggling(fall of 3si, Lori stepping down from the NG, and places like lmi,and cianci) This is just another kick to the gut... So Adam...AKA FUCKER!!! Say something!!!!!! And you better not let any bullshit slip..

That piston playing whack-a-mole on the head = spun rod bearing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RealMcCoy

That piston playing whack-a-mole on the head = spun rod bearing...

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Yep, I have seen this before. Also lose bearing clearances, low oil pressure, crank whip/flex, worn/bent piston pin...anything that allows the piston to travel farther up than normal.

-Chris

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...3s/photo62.jpg

That one is my fave lol one valve guide cut off even with the port (a big no-no any way no latrol support on the valve that guide will be toast in short order) and the other not. Thats funny as hell, why would somebody do that?