List of what's needed for ECU flash?

Can anyone clue me in in what this is all about? From what I've been reading it sounds like having the customization and tuning ability of an AEM or standalone with stock reliability. Would a full standalone be better or a piggyback? Currently I have a MAFT Pro ready to be installed on the Spyder with the turbo upgrade. I'd like to go with the best reliable option. I like the MAFT pro for it's features and tweaks (like the lean cruise mode). But at times on my old VR4 it was overwhelming. I understand all the basics but I still don't trust myself to do my own tune.

What do you need to get it done? I'm assuming a laptop, some kind if patch cable, and a compatable ECU?

You need a 98/99 ECU and whatever software they make for it, that's all I know about it. I'm assuming you can just edit the value's like you would on any other tuning system that uses a computer interface.

I know we should have a few guys here that have tried this.

Any more advice?

Have a 99 Montero ECU. Needs a few modifications to work, IE knock sensor circuitry wired in. An adapter harness is needed obviously. Check out this thread.

http://www.3sgto.org/f2/99-montero-e...h-tt-1820.html

I will check that thread. Thanks!

Has this progressed enough for me to switch from Maft pro? Would it br worth it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gearheadvr4

I will check that thread. Thanks!

Has this progressed enough for me to switch from Maft pro? Would it br worth it?

---

It's nearly there, and yes, 100% full fuel and timing control, plus as code is found/written a multitude of other features.

You're stuck with the stock MAF right now so it'll be very hard to make more than 400AWHP. I'm waiting until the EVO8 MAF is usable with the flashed ECU or a speed density option becomes available. Once that's in place I'll probably switch to it since I don't need a standalone but I'd like more rock solid adjustability than a piggyback will give me.

I read thru that entire thread and a few others on the topic. I think I will be holding onto my Maft Pro for a bit. I really like speed density and all the features. Just need to rededicate myself to learning as much as I can.

I'm excited about the possibilities the ECU flash will lead to! A bit disappointed that it's not an open source project. I thought this would be something a DIY kinda person could put together. Obviously I could buy all the parts and peice it together but the proprietary knowledge about modifying the ECU and programming would stop me.

Don't get me wrong, I believe these guys are working very hard on it and if they want to sell it then that's ok. I just misunderstood at first blush what was needed. It seems it's not done yet and I need to wait like everyone else for when it's ready for sale. :D

Looking to reflash too. I'm currently running the maft pro and safcII...you're saying I can't use that if I re-flash? Obviously with the 19ts I need to have enough air...

What are my intake options when flashing? Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TurboSinceBirth

You're stuck with the stock MAF right now so it'll be very hard to make more than 400AWHP. I'm waiting until the EVO8 MAF is usable with the flashed ECU or a speed density option becomes available. Once that's in place I'll probably switch to it since I don't need a standalone but I'd like more rock solid adjustability than a piggyback will give me.

---

No you're not. I can put an Evo 8/9 MAF in right now. It's just a matter of changing the values over, which are known, and changing the connector over to the proper one.

Matter of fact I'm going to look at doing this in the next couple months.

I also believe that I am making over 400awhp right now with the stock MAF. I have 13t's at 18psi with 560cc injectors and 14-15 degrees of timing at the top end. All of that is a reciepe for 400+awhp. And didn't Ray make over 400whp with just an SAFC and billet DR650s?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaronatstate

I also believe that I am making over 400awhp right now with the stock MAF. I have 13t's at 18psi with 560cc injectors and 14-15 degrees of timing at the top end. All of that is a reciepe for 400+awhp. And didn't Ray make over 400whp with just an SAFC and billet DR650s?

---

If that's true, your maf values would be spiking like mad in the upper rpms in the higher gears.

Not saying you can't make more power. The turbos will keep sucking air. Just the maf won't be showing an accurate count anymore. Your wideband will gradually be showing leaner afrs regardless of how much fuel you add in the fuel table.

I'm also very interested in this option as it becomes available. Currently have the emanage ultimate, and will likely keep it (as i'm already invested pretty well into it) until this option becomes a lot better.

but just a side note, I've made more than 400 whp on the stock maf. When I first had the phantoms in 2005, I was making a good deal of power. My RPS street max clutch eventually gave up under it. I had max counts of knock over 6k rpm, and was still trapping 117 mph in the 1/4 mile. However, I believe now believe the massive top end knock was a result from too much air through the stock maf (~24 psi on the phantom turbos, kinda like 19T's for those unfamiliar). But finally, after the motor was rebuilt, and still on the phantoms, IPS dyno'd my car to near 450 whp. This was all done on the stock maf. So it is possible to go past 400 whp on the stock maf, but not by a whole lot. anyone with turbos larger than 15G and looking to max them out would be wise to look beyond the stock maf.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spfan

I'm also very interested in this option as it becomes available. Currently have the emanage ultimate, and will likely keep it (as i'm already invested pretty well into it) until this option becomes a lot better.

but just a side note, I've made more than 400 whp on the stock maf. When I first had the phantoms in 2005, I was making a good deal of power. My RPS street max clutch eventually gave up under it. I had max counts of knock over 6k rpm, and was still trapping 117 mph in the 1/4 mile. However, I believe now believe the massive top end knock was a result from too much air through the stock maf (~24 psi on the phantom turbos, kinda like 19T's for those unfamiliar). But finally, after the motor was rebuilt, and still on the phantoms, IPS dyno'd my car to near 450 whp. This was all done on the stock maf. So it is possible to go past 400 whp on the stock maf, but not by a whole lot. anyone with turbos larger than 15G and looking to max them out would be wise to look beyond the stock maf.

---

So what can we use that will work? Will my maft-pro?

I am not familiar with maft pro. I've heard of it, but that's about it.

Its a GM maf...signal is converted with a little black box with 4 knobs to adjust for injectors, to a signal the mitsu ecu can read. Its about the same diameter as the ARCII I believe...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99MODVR4

So what can we use that will work? Will my maft-pro?

---

This is Monochrome from 3si. If you remember I asked you about your mod list?

Reason was I wanted to talk you into an EVO MAF swap. It can count more air than your turbos are capable of sucking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by spfan

but just a side note, I've made more than 400 whp on the stock maf. When I first had the phantoms in 2005, I was making a good deal of power. My RPS street max clutch eventually gave up under it. I had max counts of knock over 6k rpm, and was still trapping 117 mph in the 1/4 mile. However, I believe now believe the massive top end knock was a result from too much air through the stock maf (~24 psi on the phantom turbos, kinda like 19T's for those unfamiliar). But finally, after the motor was rebuilt, and still on the phantoms, IPS dyno'd my car to near 450 whp. This was all done on the stock maf. So it is possible to go past 400 whp on the stock maf, but not by a whole lot. anyone with turbos larger than 15G and looking to max them out would be wise to look beyond the stock maf.

---

I'll say it again...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg E

Not saying you can't make more power. The turbos will keep sucking air. Just the maf won't be showing an accurate count anymore. Your wideband will be telling you what amount of fuel will be needed.

---

Yes, you are correct. There's a good writeup on stealth316 about it, with a graph even. My post was merely to point out that 400 whp is not the limit on a stock maf. But it's not much more than that either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg E

This is Monochrome from 3si. If you remember I asked you about your mod list?

Reason was I wanted to talk you into an EVO MAF swap. It can count more air than your turbos are capable of sucking.

---

Yeah I remember a thread about that. I have no problems switching...:coo3l:

What is the going price for an evo maf?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg E

Your wideband will be telling you what amount of fuel will be needed.

---

Explain that please, since my wideband is not at all tied into the ECU what so ever. How will it show what is needed? All it shows is the AFR as it leaves the exhaust, after combustion has taken place. All it shows is what happened in the engine, not what needs to happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaronatstate

Explain that please, since my wideband is not at all tied into the ECU what so ever. How will it show what is needed? All it shows is the AFR as it leaves the exhaust, after combustion has taken place. All it shows is what happened in the engine, not what needs to happen.

---

What happens is as you reach the top levels of what the maf can count more air will get sucked thru it than it can accurately count. Your afrs will just get leaner and leaner. This is because the ecu isn't aware of the extra air thus it doesn't add anymore IPW.

I'm not sure why you thought I was insinuating the wideband was tied into the ecu. I'll edit my post to be more clear.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg E

What happens is as you reach the top levels of what the maf can count more air will get sucked thru it than it can accurately count. Your afrs will just get leaner and leaner. This is because the ecu isn't aware of the extra air thus it doesn't add anymore IPW.

I'm not sure why you thought I was insinuating the wideband was tied into the ecu. I'll edit my post to be more clear.

---

Yeah so the AFRs start to go lean, so you add fuel in those cells so the ECU is targeting a "richer" mixture. Sure its not perfect, but this weekend I was testing the new WB02 cable, and my WB02 was reading EXACTLY what my AFR was set at in the ECU. Now this was at 16.5psi at redline cause my boost was falling off. I got my new wastegate springs in tonight, so we'll see tomorrow just exactly what happens. If the AFRs are spot on with 18psi to redline, I will never ever believe that 400whp is the "limit" of the stock ECU.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaronatstate

No you're not. I can put an Evo 8/9 MAF in right now. It's just a matter of changing the values over, which are known, and changing the connector over to the proper one.

Matter of fact I'm going to look at doing this in the next couple months.

I also believe that I am making over 400awhp right now with the stock MAF. I have 13t's at 18psi with 560cc injectors and 14-15 degrees of timing at the top end. All of that is a reciepe for 400+awhp. And didn't Ray make over 400whp with just an SAFC and billet DR650s?

---

At the time it was only talk no proven results yet. Nobody had put an EVO 8/9 MAF on their car with a flashed ECU. Eric had one on his DR-750 car. I knew it was a matter of changing over the values and connector, but no one has stepped up to the plate to try it yet which is why I said you're stuck with the stock MAF. I never said it's impossible to make over 400AWHP with the stock MAF. I said it gets really hard to make over 400AWHP with it. This has been proven for years way back when Ray was pushing TD04s. It will only read so high of a Hz value which is why Eric used the EVO 8 MAF to make more power because it will read more flow. I'd like to see how far this MAF gets with a flashed ECU. I'd even be willing to try it out later down the road since I'd easily be able to max it out with my turbos. I'm confident in time the flashed ECU will be a very good tuning solution even for high power setups. It's just a waiting game now. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aaronatstate

Yeah so the AFRs start to go lean, so you add fuel in those cells so the ECU is targeting a "richer" mixture.

If the AFRs are spot on with 18psi to redline, I will never ever believe that 400whp is the "limit" of the stock ECU.

---

Adding more fuel will only work to a point. Let me try to explain.

Usually what happens when you get to that "maf over run" point the Hz count spikes up and down rapidly. This with make your engine load values also go nuts. Just pulling these numbers out of my ass but for example, you'll be seeing 150 load followed by 100, then back up to 130... Which cells do you modify??

Sure you can just richen all those cells to your Target afr. The problem is, none of those cells are the ones that match the actual air coming in. You could be sucking in enough air to be 200 load but the ecu will never see that much air because the maf can't count that high.

Tuning the cells the ecu does see will kind of work but you're only tuning for whatever conditions you're driving in. Say you lower the boost or accelerate in a lower gear or going down hill your afr will be too rich. Like wise, say you get over zealous one day and decide to top 4th gear, your afrs will be too lean.

Instead of thinking the stock maf "limit" is in the 400 to 450hp range, think of it as the stock maf starts to loose count at 400 HP. That's a more accurate claim.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg E

What happens is as you reach the top levels of what the maf can count more air will get sucked thru it than it can accurately count. Your afrs will just get leaner and leaner. This is because the ecu isn't aware of the extra air thus it doesn't add anymore IPW.

---

Whoomp! There it is. j/m Greg. It still surprises me how easily saturated our factory MAS can become. This right-hand dip in activation time can also, however, be attributed to boost dropping off. Regardless, we have seen the same trend with 1bar and 20psi, and it is both lame and scary. A flat curve goes hand-in-hand with a tapered boost curve, but all of my tuning logs showing that are from piggyback cars heh.

The goodies are enroute for the next phase :D I will send you a message later today.

Well we're going to be swapping in an evo maf and flashing my 99 pretty soon, so we'll see!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 99MODVR4

Well we're going to be swapping in an evo maf and flashing my 99 pretty soon, so we'll see!

---

Any word on this? I'm finally educating myself on this flashing stuff. I'm wanting to hit ~500-550 HP

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gs1000kat

Any word on this? I'm finally educating myself on this flashing stuff. I'm wanting to hit ~500-550 HP

---

Poor Brett...

He wrecked the car. It only put down 380ish at the wheels before the accident. Wasn't able to run a lot of timing...

I'm reincarnating his car over the next few weeks into mine then will be retuning. Hopefully with better results this time.

Btw Alan. I need a beta tester for some really handy ecu mods if you got time/car available. ;)

Everything is out there to do this now but you'll likely still need help with the actual flashing part and of course the right ECU. I'd heard of a group making kits based on a Montero ECU but I'm not sure they completed it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greg E

Poor Brett...

He wrecked the car. It only put down 380ish at the wheels before the accident. Wasn't able to run a lot of timing...

I'm reincarnating his car over the next few weeks into mine then will be retuning. Hopefully with better results this time.

---

Ouch! guess I missed that. So are you rebuilding his car or using parts to fix/modify your own car?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gearheadvr4

Everything is out there to do this now but you'll likely still need help with the actual flashing part and of course the right ECU. I'd heard of a group making kits based on a Montero ECU but I'm not sure they completed it.

---

I have a 99 so I'm pretty sure I have the correct ECU already, lol.

I've been reading as many threads as I can, but a lot of them are over my head. It seems most threads start off way above my current level.

I have the OP2 and flash connector on the way and I have downloaded ecuflash from the tactrix site. I think all I need now is evoscan and some knowledge on what the heck i am doing

Wow, I am so sorry to hear that news! =/

You know that I am always down Greg :bigthumb: Please shoot me a PM or e-mail if/whenever you feel like it. Two other members down here have expressed interest in the option, so it would be cool to see the output from different setups. Personally, I am on the fence, but the new stuff might just push me over hahaha :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gs1000kat

Ouch! guess I missed that. So are you rebuilding his car or using parts to fix/modify your own car?

---

I'm putting the engine from his car into mine and he is buying it. I will be fixing his and keeping it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bboyalan

Wow, I am so sorry to hear that news! =/

You know that I am always down Greg :bigthumb: Please shoot me a PM or e-mail if/whenever you feel like it. Two other members down here have expressed interest in the option, so it would be cool to see the output from different setups. Personally, I am on the fence, but the new stuff might just push me over hahaha :p

---

The big tables I've come up with are a lot safer to use. ;)

... And my stock boost gauge reads boost.

LOL! Oh how could I forget that confounding experience... sounds fascinating! :) I was a little envious of the VIII that I tuned a few weeks ago.