Electric car that charges itself

I've had some pretty crazy ideas lately, not sure why. But, my latest idea is to create an electric car that charges itself.

On a normal car that uses a combustion engine, the electrical system is charged by the alternator which is hooked up via pully/belt system to the crankshaft, and it turns (creates an electric current) when the engine is running.

So, on a 100% electric car, why couldn't you hook up a series of alternators to the non-drive axle. So, when the car is in motion, the axle is turning which in-turn turns the alternators and creates a charge to keep the batteries charged up??

Make any sense? Why wouldn't it work?

Because for each alternator that you add it adds that much more friction the engine (electric or combustion) needs to overcome. If perpetual was that easy to achieve, we would have it available by now.

Or just hook a generator to a motor and one can power the other. :lo5l:

Sorry bro, no, it will not work. They do use generators on the brakes to help charge the batteries though.

What about a stepper motor instead of an alternator?

Sorry no, you can't generate enough power to make up for what the motor uses.

They actually have this tech already in the works in high end power wheelchairs. I have been working with a company called Permobil on a new chairman that charges the batteries with a similar system as your idea. It cant completely charge itself but it does have a 30% longer run time then anything else in its group. The Idea works but does still need to be charged via an 8amp charger every night.

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Originally Posted by Lithium

They actually have this tech already in the works in high end power wheelchairs. I have been working with a company called Permobil on a new chairman that charges the batteries with a similar system as your idea. It cant completely charge itself but it does have a 30% longer run time then anything else in its group. The Idea works but does still need to be charged via an 8amp charger every night.

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It's the same concept of using the brakes on a hybrid to charge the battery or just down shifting in a pure electric car. I wish an engineer would step into this thread and explain it better than I can.

What you are basically describing is a perpetual motion device. Think about a pendulum, it appears to swing forever, relying on its momentum to move to the top of its arc, and gravity to move back down. What you dont see is small amounts of air resistance and friction at the joint of whatever the string is attached too. This causes the arc to be just ever so slightly less high each swing, less and less until the pendulum stops.

The concept applied here is pretty simple, as you are moving the wheels with the motor you are losing energy into the universe in forms of vibration, sound, and heat (drive train loss, etc). There is no way to regain that energy from the vehicle itself, you need to apply it from the universe (charging station, etc). Its the reason why you see regenerative brakes and not things like alternators charging the battery, the energy required to turn the alternator would even end up with a negative net gain.

Check out the first law of thermodynamics, or conservation of energy for more info.

Also, electric motors and alternators arent very different. If you forcefully turn an electric motor you generate electricity (regenerative braking in hybrids). Taking that and what we have above, ive literally done this in real life.

http://gallery.techarena.in/data/516/medium/lego5.jpg
Thats an electric motor from a lego with a small plug at the end. Usually a battery powers the motor to turn it. I took the cable and directly connectied two electric motors together (motor - wire - motor), no battery at all. If you rotate one motor, the other will ALSO rotate due to the electricity being generated. But, due to conservation of energy, the secondary motor did not rotate as far as I manually rotated the first.

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Originally Posted by green-lantern

It's the same concept of using the brakes on a hybrid to charge the battery or just down shifting in a pure electric car. I wish an engineer would step into this thread and explain it better than I can.

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I can't indulge into exactly what it is but it has to do with a couple of large capacitor's and a severely over-driven alternator.

The future's going to be figuring out a way to remove the power source from the electric car completely. (similar to electric trains) Everything else is pretty much 100 year old tech. :P

Here. The electromagnetic charging pads you can charge devices on, put them in the roadways and have a car with a adapter drive all day long on one charge, then it can charge overnight on the same pad if they install them in parking lots at hotels or something. And you could power them by road side solar panels by day and power grid by night.

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Originally Posted by EvanH

Here. The electromagnetic charging pads you can charge devices on, put them in the roadways and have a car with a adapter drive all day long on one charge, then it can charge overnight on the same pad if they install them in parking lots at hotels or something. And you could power them by road side solar panels by day and power grid by night.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep4L1...layer_embedded

I know about the solar roadways. But That is for powering the cities. Isn't it? Not cars that drive on them?

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Originally Posted by EvanH

Here. The electromagnetic charging pads you can charge devices on, put them in the roadways and have a car with a adapter drive all day long on one charge, then it can charge overnight on the same pad if they install them in parking lots at hotels or something. And you could power them by road side solar panels by day and power grid by night.

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Yeah I've heard of this. They were talking about putting them at stop lights ect.

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Originally Posted by x2percentmilk

What you are basically describing is a perpetual motion device. Think about a pendulum, it appears to swing forever, relying on its momentum to move to the top of its arc, and gravity to move back down. What you dont see is small amounts of air resistance and friction at the joint of whatever the string is attached too. This causes the arc to be just ever so slightly less high each swing, less and less until the pendulum stops.

The concept applied here is pretty simple, as you are moving the wheels with the motor you are losing energy into the universe in forms of vibration, sound, and heat (drive train loss, etc). There is no way to regain that energy from the vehicle itself, you need to apply it from the universe (charging station, etc). Its the reason why you see regenerative brakes and not things like alternators charging the battery, the energy required to turn the alternator would even end up with a negative net gain.

Check out the first law of thermodynamics, or conservation of energy for more info.

Also, electric motors and alternators arent very different. If you forcefully turn an electric motor you generate electricity (regenerative braking in hybrids). Taking that and what we have above, ive literally done this in real life.

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BTW thanks for the good explanation

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Originally Posted by EvanH

I know about the solar roadways. But That is for powering the cities. Isn't it? Not cars that drive on them?

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If you watch the TEDx speech the guy gave he talks about how he started with the idea of slot cars, so ya I think the end game would be to power the cars through the road, and use the road to generate that power.

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Originally Posted by AgentOblivious

If you watch the TEDx speech the guy gave he talks about how he started with the idea of slot cars, so ya I think the end game would be to power the cars through the road, and use the road to generate that power.

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I think there is some concern about people being exposed to the electrical fields. Kind of like living under power lines. ha ha

*filed under "direct exhaust intake"*

IMO electric cars are only a step towards more efficient vehicles...hydrogen is the way to go lol after all it is the most abundant resource in the world!

and hydrogen is also the most inefficient power source being tossed on the table (around 30%, iirc). ethanol looks like liquid gold next to hydrogen; at least when it comes to how easily it can be processed into useable form.

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Originally Posted by inperfectdarkness

and hydrogen is also the most inefficient power source being tossed on the table (around 30%, iirc). ethanol looks like liquid gold next to hydrogen; at least when it comes to how easily it can be processed into useable form.

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The government heavily subsidizing it has much to do with that. Nuclear power is our best option, we just have to convince all the hippies.... :Doh:

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Originally Posted by Lithium

The government heavily subsidizing it has much to do with that. Nuclear power is our best option, we just have to convince all the hippies.... :Doh:

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government subsidizing has nothing to do with the amount of energy extracted from a fuel when consumed; vs the amount of energy required to refine it to that consumable state. hydrogen is WOEFULLY inefficient in this area.


p.s.

nuclear energy isn't truly portable. i hope it never becomes more portible than a ballistic submarine. :)

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Originally Posted by inperfectdarkness

government subsidizing has nothing to do with the amount of energy extracted from a fuel when consumed; vs the amount of energy required to refine it to that consumable state. hydrogen is WOEFULLY inefficient in this area.


p.s.

nuclear energy isn't truly portable. i hope it never becomes more portible than a ballistic submarine. :)

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I thought you were referring to costs from production to pump vs the theoretical costs of hydrogen powered transportation. Nuclear power wouldn't be fit for daily commuting (especially with Americas horrible crash statistics) but then again I would kill for a car that would go for 20 years between fill ups.