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Open Source is free right? Rofl not for long...
I sense a disturbance in the force... Like a million linux fanbois screaming out in pain.
first it was open office... now MySQL...
You've been owned. All those companies that actually embraced mysql for real and payed for support... Your costs just tripled per year. Suck it up, its Oracle...
http://www.infoworld.com/d/open-sour...ql-support-168
expect more "prodding" by Oracle to move you off MySQL...
There goes the neighborhood.
Oracle is being intelligent, business wise. Morals though; they've never heard of 'em.
MS Fanboi Fail.
You pay if you need support or if you are an OEM, VAR or ISV.
Anyone else can download, install and run it free of charge(unless you need support.)
The problem is, the support used to be free. MySQL is hard to use for newbies with no support. What happens if you break it? You have to pay Oracle's obnoxious rates.
And the free support is still free. There are forums, the complete Reference Guide online, as much support as you need, just ask a question.
It's the principle man, the principle. :p
Support was 599 not free. $2000 is still less than Oracle or MS Sql
alan your drunk... support for Microsoft SQL server is 0$... Oracle charges for patches... Thats what you get for 20%....
IF YOU WANT MS support... its 250$ max a call. I have only called once in 2005. They guy was on the phone for 3 days.
You get patches and updates for free. The FULL PURCHASE cost of microsoft SQL is around 2500$ for a standard edition.
Oracle charges 20% of the cost per year.
Oracle enteprise loaded 450k$(+20% per year), Microsoft enterprise loaded 25k$(+0 per year)... MySQL can't compare to these editions but...
Whats funny is you fail to even realize who Oracle is... your a fool if you think Oracle isnt out to kill mysql... rofl...
MySQL will turn into "oracle lite", trust me you wont get updates :) If your going to pay 2000$ a year just get a full microsoft licence for 2500$...
You sound like the Open Office guys last year... Yeah they won't change it... rofl you can't be this naive? in 3 years? MySQL will be a name only...
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01...e_commitments/
Lets try again for the slow people in the room.
$2000 is still less that the cost of The Oracle DB software or the cost of MS Sql server.
Even if you have to pay you still come out less.
If oracle stops supporting MySql so what. Its open source someone will fork it and start making patches and updates. The users will tell Oracle to piss off and move to the newer updated version.
okay lets do the math for the people from Michigan :)... 2000$ is for a year of support... Microsoft charges for that year??? 0$ thats right ZERO!
Now the initial purchase price is 2500$... but this gets supported for 10 years for how much? thats 10,000$ for MySQL... microsofts price???? survey says 0$!! again...
Get it? Now if you are going throw your db away after 1 year, yes you could save 500$, but still for that 500$ extra you get a ton more options and functionality. How about a full Business Intelligence package? And full blown ETL(the best out there)?, security... The list goes on.
Class dismissed...
Actually others have already started forking MySQL... Then you end up with 100 different database open source projects... How does that end up? MySQL was about money, it sold out for a billion. It will sell out again and yes the supporters or MySQL get stuck holding the stick... support fades, bugs dont get fixed, security holes stay open.
Hmm wait a minute.. first of all MySQL is only free to "open source" projects. Are for profit web sites "open source" projects? I was looking at the eula and it looks like many people should not be using the free mysql...
if you want truly free just use SQL Server Express 2008 R2.... free from Microsoft and runs circles around mysql... you don't get the free ETL though.
Mike I know its just grates on the MS Fanboi mentality but most of the MySql community does not need/want oracles support. They could charge $5000 for it and it really won't matter to the users. The ease of use and administration is one of the key features.
Their is a reason the LAMP architecture is running more of the websites on the net. Is the Oracle owned MySql becomes cost prohibitive a new one will rise to take its place.
the fact is your wrong Linux fanboi...
yes there will always be people expecting good software to cost 0$. If you want better admin and ease of use go get SQL Server Express2008 (its COMPLETELY free)... And you get Business Intel and a ton of other great options and MySQL can't even try to compare.
http://www.microsoft.com/express/Database/ its limitation is 10 gigabytes per database(but can have a ton of DB's).
But if you are using MySQL in a "commercial" setting you should be paying 2k a year or your breaking the argreement with Oracle(aka stealing software)...
I didnt realize it, so I guess MySQL already isn't really free unless you are working on and open source solution.
the purpose of this post was to show Oracle will kill the whole "omg its free" thinking. And yes I realize the main MySQL guys already quit and are forking(they will simply sell the thing off again once they get rolling I guess...).
Talk to me when Sql server is cross platform.
Thank you Alan, I couldn't said it better myself. Phone support are for companies who don't have seasoned DB Admin. By the time you get to someone on the phone and go through all the levels of technicians, you are better off searching tech forums for a solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan92RTTT
Even companies that don't have a seasoned DB admin don't need to call in for support. All they need to know is how to search efficiently!
When I worked in online advertising we used nothing but Oracle. We had three DB admins and never once needed to make a call. Not because they knew it all, they just knew where to look and who to talk to online.
Now I am working at a different company where I am hands on in the data everyday through SQL Server 2000,2005,2008 so on. I am not a DB Admin. We don't have DB admins as all of our software and DB's are on our clients servers. So if I get stuck I don't call support. I start searching online.........
Ahh, another misunderstanding being propagated. You only need to use the proprietary version if you are 1) not going to abide by the terms of the GPL (i.e. essentially allow redistribution of your code and make the source available at the same cost as the binaries) and 2) you are going to link against the MySQL libraries. Therefore, simply utilizing the database as it was intended to be used does not constitute a need to purchase the commercial "proprietary" version. Connecting to a database and issuing SQL statements is not considered a "link", it is a use. Try to understand this before spreading anymore falsehoods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2nd
Besides I just don't see what you are so bent out of shape about? I have seen a few of your threads concerning OSS and I just cannot understand why you care. You don't have to use it, and for those of us who do, if this really did cause a problem (which it won't. At least for awhile... -- I do agree with you about Oracle's motives), Alan is right, another option will emerge. Postgres is a very viable option and competitor to MySQL as it is. I can see people simply moving over to that side of the fence.
Oh and SQL Server Express? I hardly call a limit of 16 databases useful: "The maximum limit to the number of SQL Server Express instances is 16 on the same machine. These instances must be uniquely named for the purpose of identifying them." http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...sseover_topic4
If you were right and OSS sucks so bad, no one would use it. But Microsoft's products do not fit everyone's needs in every situation, and OSS fills that gap. In certain situations, it is better to use OSS, in certain situations it is not. Could it be that MS fanbois complain so loudly about OSS because they feel threatened? Hmm...
Quit your bitching and stick with your MS solution, and I'll stick with OSS.
of course people will look at free solutions, so a "free" db will always interest people. You should.
MS Sql is so cheap and does so much more than OSS and Windows servers are much more managable than unix boxes and have 100x the functionality...
I guess no one uses Windows Server right? So thats why I use MS SQL, I can get stuff done way faster with MS tools plain and simple. I can kick OSS's butt.
Time is money to me, if I wanted to be 1/2 productive I would use some pita system like oracle on a unix box or an OSS solution... You will have more work ongoing keeping oss running. I can set alerts on my OS and DB's and never have to worry, I can manage tons of servers, want virtual servers? Thats built in. I dont have to spend 10k on vmware... Microsoft solutions are cheap and complete.
Desktops? Are windows boxes... PERIOD, guess what plays best? Windows Server.
But again the point of this POST is about how one OSS for db's are going away slowly... So get ready for less support for the free editions :) Hopefully they don't pull patches on you :) When you have to switch its going to cost you TIME and lots of it... People think free is free, with IT your time is never free.
windoze? they run good when they fresh.. sometimes. most of the times there are always dump problems with it. that is why we are moving towards linux. my linux servers go down only for a hardware maintenance/repair. windoze boxes need to be rebooted every single day. lol
PS: even microsoft server 1000000 page book says that "and sometimes it might not work" or something similar to that. what a joke.
rofl run Windows 98 as your server and you might run into that problem... oh and welcome to 1998... if your rebooting daily you are brain dead and should not be let anywhere near a computer... I laugh when i hear admins say that, I think "here is a guy who should not be in IT as he can't even get a server running correctly"...
Its a tribute to your IT skills I guess.
would you mind sharing your "up time" on your windoze box? I'll share "uptime" from my linux servers. who said something about 98? :confused:
some people only talk about their IT "skills".... if something is connected to that windows server and its actually doing some work, it will be rebooted rather sooner than later...
rolf k... like i said stick to your lack of knowledge and your 1998 thinking.
Woot MySQL being forked... Start getting ready to convert all your db's, well itll pretty much be a name change i guess :)
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-sourc...es-ouster/7558
So in reality all that means is two years from now I'll add skysql to my resume and 3sgto might be running skysql not mysql.
IMO not a big deal.
I'd jump in here but you keep switching from your argument for Windows Servers to arguing about MySQL.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2nd
As for your comments about getting more done, I'd be interested in knowing the scale of environment you work on. I'm currently on a contract with the Census Bureau. They do a lot more than just the door-to-door census taking, they are responsible for all kinds of economic data that is used daily. Guess what systems it's all running on... wait for it... Red Hat Enterprise Linux. A few years ago I worked up at the NSA on some very large clusters. Guess what they ran? Red Hat Enterprise Linux. I've also worked on contracts for 2 DOJ customers and a DHS customer. Guess what they ran in all their large environments? Red Hat Enterprise Linux. I never once saw a Microsoft Server production compute environment. Sure, we run it on all the desktop systems, because that's where it belongs ;) Any "real" work is all done on Linux. The DHS even has some IBM 390 series mainframes, running Linux.
Red Hat is the perfect business model for OSS. Provide it free (you can download RHEL, but you have to compile the source. Or you can download CentOS) and they also have the community version, Fedora, for development. They simply charge for support. It's good support for the most part too, which is why they're successful. Oracle has been chasing that model for years now (remember OEL? LOLOL). Ask most Oracle DBAs WHY they don't ever call Oracle support... IT SUCKS!!!
What's up with EnterpriseDB? I heard some real good things about it, especially performance wise. I haven't heard anything lately on it though.
rofl yeah we saw how your census "project" went. You guys are the reason we are in such debt. Yeah the linux servers are free but the support contracts are like a billion dollars an hour to support it... You are working on the worst IT failures in the history of the earth. Way to go! Id feel proud! :)
they are all giant sucking money machines and the chit dont work...
So here is your beautifully running "census" open source project...
first it was a 2 BILLION DOLLAR FAILURE... then a 3 BILLION DOLLAR failure. These IT folks should be kicked out on their asses(pardon my french).
Seriously hire Oracle.. ANYONE since you guys suck so bad.
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/projectfai...sus-bureau/660
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/projectfai...it-failure/674
Yeah your handhelds arent talking to you linux servers... well add another BILLION... thats right billion dollars.Quote:
Gutierrez said that the Census Bureau will need an additional $2.2 to $3.0 billion in funding over the next five years to meet the replan needs….The life cycle cost for the Reengineered 2010 Census was estimated at $11.8 billion in the FY 2009 Budget Request, including $1.8 billion for the American Community Survey which replaced the long-form. The new estimated life cycle cost for the 2010 Census is $13.7 to $14.5 billion.
This is why open source is dumb to use, because it sucks and costs more in the end. rofl you said IBM 390... what a joke.
Its a fu*$*##* Census! Its simply easy data and you guys f'ed it up so bad... My mind reels at the waste and stupidity of our govt and lets toss in "linux" and your open
source solutions because they work sooooo well :)
My databases are not small, previously i was handling a hundred million transactions a NIGHT. All on microsoft sql server. Terabytes upon terabytes... Mirroring, clustering... distributed systems. All running on Windows Servers. Again look it up, Windows servers run huge dbs, the largest website in the world runs on Windows and Microsoft SQL... Well maybe its #2(whoops its #5 now traffic wise) now but it definately servers the most data per minute across the web. Myspace... My current database is around 3 terabytes though at my new job.
end rant...
As I suspected, you're unable to see past what you want to see. I tried to mention that there are many things the census does (other than the decennial project). You chose not too see that. The decennial project was a disaster, but mostly because of the contract company. You've confirmed what I suspected. I hope everyone else in this thread sees that it's completely useless to try and have an intelligent discussion with you. Keep reading what you want to read, and reading in to what you want to read. I didn't want to get personal, but since you did... no, I'll still not get personal. Professionally, however, you fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2nd
Oh, and in case you do feel like actually having an intelligent discussion beyond only what you choose to argue about, here are the main surveys census does:
http://www.census.gov/aboutus/surveys.html
vital data that is used in every day life, not just the once-every-10-years Decennial project.
I also mentioned DOJ, NSA, and DHS. Again, however, you only read and see what you want.
edit: I like how you leave the top websites off... just what OS do you think they run?
biggest website in the world, what do you think it runs on?
http://www.google.com/support/gsa/bi...n&answer=15898
there's a hint
I like how you leave off the 2nd biggest web site, microsoft and it doesnt run on linux(were talking hitwise not data wise).
But nice census excuses. I have seen open source fail so much more than "closed"... the technology simply is a risk.
Google usually says screw it and spends the money and effort to re-write the whole damn thing. This is why all these open source govt projects fail. Billions upon billions being wasted.
It like govt welfare for the DC area i understand so if I was being paid off those billions I would love it also :) The navy web site is another multibillion dollar open source failure... I can keep going.
I was simply using your own argument about open source. You identified the 5th biggest website, I identified the #1 website which uses open source. Now you want to bring up the 2nd biggest website? That doesn't trump the biggest LOL.
I didn't make excuses for Census, the Decennial project was a total failure. That's a decennial project (meaning it's done once every ten years). I'm talking about the other massive projects that Census does every day. As you've shown a propensity to do, you only look at what you want. You're one of the blind followers of M$. Enjoy it. I'm not going to get in to a pissing contest where I point out every microsoft failure and you point out open source failures.
I don't get paid my salary because of government welfare. I get paid what I get paid because how much I know. When people can't fix something and need an expert, they are happy as pigs in shit to get someone like me that knows what I'm doing. Most of the failures I see are due to lack of knowledge. I fix that. That's why I make what I make.
yet about 50% or more websites running on apache.... micro$oft sucks and everybody know that. people who like to "click next" keep using it. because their knowledge stops at CLI.
yeah and than there is google, and I also have doubts that microsoft still runs windows web servers. I know they were before and how many times they got hacked? lol
keep up the fud! :) seriously IIS runs a ton of the web. Apache has security holes the size of texas...
For example lets look at this months that got caught...
Class: HTTP Response Splitting
Versions: Every Version Before 3.2.9, 3.4.9, 3.6.3, 4.0rc1
Fixed In: 3.2.9, 3.4.9, 3.6.3, 4.0rc1
Description: By inserting a certain string into a URL, it was possible
to inject both headers and content to any browser that
supported "Server Push" (mostly only Gecko-based browsers
like Firefox). This could lead to Cross-Site Scripting
vulnerabilities, and possibly other more dangerous
security issues as well.
References: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=600464
http://cwe.mitre.org/data/definitions/113.html
CVE Number: CVE-2010-3172
Class: Information Leak
Versions: 2.12 to 3.2.8, 3.4.8, 3.6.2, 3.7.3, 4.1
Fixed In: 3.2.9, 3.4.9, 3.6.3, 4.0rc1
Description: The Old Charts system generated graphs with
predictable names into the "graphs/" directory,
which also could be browsed to see its contents.
This allowed unauthorized users to see product names
and charted information about those products over time.
References: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=419014
CVE Number: CVE-2010-3764
Class: Cross-Site Scripting
Versions: 3.7.1 to 3.7.3, 4.1
Fixed In: 4.0rc1
Description: YUI 2.8.1 was vulnerable to a Cross-Site Scripting
vulnerability in certain .swf files. The YUI shipped
with Bugzilla has been updated to 2.8.2.
References: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=606618
http://secunia.com/advisories/41955
http://yuilibrary.com/support/2.8.2/
Last months...
Class: Remote Information Disclosure
Versions: 2.19.1 to 3.2.7, 3.3.1 to 3.4.7, 3.5.1 to 3.6.1,
3.7 to 3.7.2
Fixed In: 3.2.8, 3.4.8, 3.6.2, 3.7.3
Description: An unprivileged user is normally not allowed to view
other users' group membership. But boolean charts
let the user use group-based pronouns, indirectly
disclosing group membership. This security fix
restricts the use of pronouns to groups the user
belongs to.
References: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=417048
CVE Number: CVE-2010-2756
Class: Notification Bypass
Versions: 2.22rc1 to 3.2.7, 3.3.1 to 3.4.7, 3.5.1 to 3.6.1,
3.7 to 3.7.2
Fixed In: 3.2.8, 3.4.8, 3.6.2, 3.7.3
Description: Normally, when a user is impersonated, he receives
an email informing him that he is being impersonated,
containing the identity of the impersonator. However,
it was possible to impersonate a user without this
notification being sent.
References: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=450013
CVE Number: CVE-2010-2757
Class: Remote Information Disclosure
Versions: 2.17.1 to 3.2.7, 3.3.1 to 3.4.7, 3.5.1 to 3.6.1,
3.7 to 3.7.2
Fixed In: 3.2.8, 3.4.8, 3.6.2, 3.7.3
Description: An error message thrown by the "Reports" and "Duplicates"
page confirmed the non-existence of products, thus
allowing users to guess confidential product names.
(Note that the "Duplicates" page was not vulnerable
in Bugzilla 3.6rc1 and above though.)
References: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=577139
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=519835
CVE Number: CVE-2010-2758
Class: Denial of Service
Versions: 2.23.1 to 3.2.7, 3.3.1 to 3.4.7, 3.5.1 to 3.6.1,
3.7 to 3.7.2
Fixed In: 3.2.8, 3.4.8, 3.6.2, 3.7.3
Description: If a comment contained the phrases "bug X" or
"attachment X", where X was an integer larger than the
maximum 32-bit signed integer size, PostgreSQL would
throw an error, and any page containing that comment would
not be viewable. On most Bugzillas, any user can enter
a comment on any bug, so any user could have used this to
deny access to one or all bugs. Bugzillas running on
databases other than PostgreSQL are not affected.
References: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=583690
CVE Number: CVE-2010-2759
The holes in Apache just keep going.
I know what works, and with Microsoft solutions I can get the job done alot faster and cheaper, thats what I see and know.
I would beat you on price and speed EVERY time on any project. Open source is fine for the small website and forums. I think thats where it belongs and does a great job. But when you need mid and large size projects I would opt for microsoft development tools.
You guys keep your blinders on... I've seen open source projects and 80% of the time they are a complete mess and cost 10x too much. You can keep ignoring development and ongoing support costs.
Guys mike is is MS/Intel fanboi.
Unless you like to poke at him just to see what BS he spews its best to ignore him. He's long past the point of having a rational unbiased discussion.
actually i prefer AMD :)
AMD/Open Source fanboi :)
Regardless of what you prefer, you obviously don't understand too much about Apache. MDT is a joke compared to the power you can have with Apache. Quit making stupid posts that are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2nd
rofl yeah it isn't full of holes... Apache isn't patching its security holes every month? do I need to post them every month?
Your ignorance is showing. Everything is full of holes. Apaches are found most often BECAUSE IT IS THE MOST USED. Quit being a moron. MDT is full of holes as well. Again, you are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2nd
I find it kinda funny that your Top PC Virus software sites run........ APACHE. Kasperkey?