My 2014 Refresh/ 6G74TT conversion

It's that time of year again to spend all the monies on the 3k. Most people's yearly refresh includes things like changing the oil, checking the brakes, wash/wax, and maybe throwing in a new air freshener. Mine tend to be engine rebuilds.

I sold my Del Sol over the weekend and couldn't think of a better place to dump the cash.

I ordered a 6G74 from BestofJDM.com. They have the most complete parts list out of any that I've found and are based in Virginia. Most people say to go through JDMEnginesDepot. Their website says they are out of stock so I emailed them to find out when they would be back in stock. They replied that they are unavailable.

Since I have to modify my SS downpipe anyway I figured now is the time to order a cat-back so that whatever exhaust shop I take it to can make my DP work with it rather than lining it up with my stock 2.5" and later trying to get the new exhaust to fit. I ordered the IPS quad tip system. I've heard nothing but good reviews on it and I like the way it looks stock but flows better and weighs less.

I also found a good deal on a 4-bolt turbo oil pan. You either have to modify the 74 oil pan to clear the t-case or grind the 74 girdle to clear the 72 pan. Grinding the girdle seems like the less painful way to go.

The only other thing I thought I might need is '99 style lifters. I went ahead and picked them up from 3sx with the tool that they have on sale.

Of course other things will pop up but I'll deal with them as they come.

nice. interested in seeing your setup with the oil pan down the road.

what setup are you going to use for the turbos on the 3.5?

My refresh started in 2012 I believe. :(

In to see some awesome sauce!

Thanks guys, the plan is to have it ready for NG this year so hopefully I can make it happen!

Since I'm going to run the 3.5L stock with 10:1 internals I'm going to be limited on turbo choice. The ultimate goal is to have a 8.5:1 forged 3.5 with Kamak 20T turbos to make a torque-monster street car. So I really don't want to spend much (if any) on a temporary turbo set up.

I don't know how much a stock 74 can take before hitting knock. I could convert to e85 but then the engine may not handle it. I feel like it's kind of a weird place to be.

I remember how much fun I had on my 10:1 9b low boost set up and am kinda going for that again with this, except now I'm AWD.

Ultimately, I want to be able to drive it. The thing spends too much time under the knife (at least I get enjoyment out of working on it) or in storage and not on the road.

ah, i wasn't aware that you were going to stay 10:1. are you going to tear down the 3.5 when it arrives to rebuild?

Not this year. Maybe that will be the 2015 refresh ha

First update is no bueno.

The JDM engine supplier contacted me to tell me the engine they have in stock didn't pass compression and would not be shipped. It's actually really nice that they did the test and aren't sending it out anyway. OR maybe they don't actually have the engine and it's just a delay tactic.

3SX also contacted me to let me know that they are out of lifters and are expecting a new shipment soon. Shortly after I got a notice that the order has been shipped, so maybe they got them sooner than they expected?

maybe they just created the shipping label to get it ready for when the replacements arrived

sucks to hear about the delay on the engine :C

I can finally update this thread!!

Big bore lifters came from 3sx it seems like forever ago.

Eventually got the quad-tip exhaust from IPS.

I have a new B&M oil cooler (Summit)

Also got my Prosport oil filter adapter plate for a more accurate oil temp reading. (Prosport)

My new -10 turbo drains that I ordered are also sitting on the shelf waiting to be cut to length and installed. I made custom -4 feeds that should have enough length to reach the turbos without issue.

I got the email today that my engine is shipping out today. They took a video of the compression of my actual engine before shipping it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtrJbWtWXoE

210ish per cylinder. Seems a bit high to me, they must have squirted some oil in the cylinders first. At least they are all consistent.

I still need to order a water pump and timing belt for it before I drop it in. I was considering doing GZP's preset cam gears unless an alternative drops in my lap.

So now it comes down to my NG decision. The car is going. I borrowed an engine from Mitoska that will drop in no modifications needed and I'll be able to get it running within a day and a half and drive it to NG.

The 3.5 will be cutting it tight, I don't expect to see it realistically before the 13th. I know I have to modify the girdle, I don't know exactly how much I have to grind off, but I already have a 4 bolt oil pan to use. I also already have the fittings to modify the thermostat housing for the turbo coolant lines. I think the only other thing that needs modified is the downpipe. I plan on taking it to a shop to do it so there's another day wasted on it.

I have a set of the preset cam gears I will save you some coin on if interested.

So I got delivery notice that the engine will be here Tuesday! In the meantime I need to get my garage cleaned up and ready for the engine swap.

Also, Thanks to Bill I have a set of GZP cam gears on the way. You rock!

The eagle has landed.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps02ae14c9.jpg

Exactly two weeks until I drive to PA for NG.. Plenty of time, who wants to grab a beer?

First, I gotta say, I am really pleased with the appearance of this engine. Everything is super clean. The only damage that I've found is on the upper timing covers.

Here it is, unwrapped, still in the truck.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psca7e6a36.jpg

All pulleys turned freely, with no bearing noise when turned by hand. I replaced mine within the last 5 years and with as little as I drive it they are still fine, but it's nice to have spares.
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps6c7c6d87.jpg

Upper timing cover damage

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pscfb912f0.jpg

3500 Woo!

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps8328be95.jpg

Fuel rail cover:

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps51f3df57.jpg

Engine code from compression video:

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pse726c424.jpg

Super clean wiring harness

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps763e29f4.jpg

Goofy mounting place for the PTU

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps185b97f9.jpg

Light rust on the crank snout. Also RTV for the rear main seal housing? Somebody's been here before, that seal is supposed to be dry.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps10fbc888.jpg

AC compressor that is much cleaner than the one in my car

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps22af4ff2.jpg

Alternator

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps5e2eff03.jpg

goofy dual TPS throttle-body linkage

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps120e9367.jpg

On the stand.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pse2db025b.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psec7c0ed3.jpg

More to follow.

Because I'm running turbos I have to modify the thermostat housing to supply them with coolant. Since the 6G74 heads are further apart you can't just swap the 6g72 TT housing over.

I started by taking some intake pipes out so I could see the stock housing and where the lines are. I wanted to make sure I plumbed them in the correct places so I didn't have two feeds going to a turbo

I forgot to take a "before" picture, so this is as good as it gets without digging for and older one.
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psea788ce0.jpg

I used a 7/16 drill bit with a 1/4-18 NPT tap

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps2cab83fe.jpg

Hole drilled now to tap.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psb3e4c6b7.jpg

The tap bottomed out on the level below. Since the tap is tapered I couldn't just stop there.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps6b0ae821.jpg

So I bought another tap and cut the end off it. These are the fittings I'm going to use.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps43f48a28.jpg

The cut tap did the trick, got a couple nice threads.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psd74e651f.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps0c7df6a0.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps50aa6c2d.jpg

I'm going to be using that bigger plug for my aftermarket gauge setup. The stock one wasn't being used anymore so that hole got re-purposed as a turbo feed.

(1/8 NPT thread)

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps3bba53c9.jpg

Final product, with Teflon tape.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pscc8dfe74.jpg

The last turbo feed/return is on the fill neck itself from the 6G72 engine and will transfer over.

subbed.

I like what you did here with the left most coolant barb:
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pscc8dfe74.jpg

you won't need to trim the front head like you would with a normally converted housing:
http://www.3sx.com/store/catalog/coo...-600-label.jpg
(3sx housing pictured above)

are you concerned about flow here at all with it being in the 1/8" sensor housing OR the hard right angle? also, I believe it is BSP, if you're concerned about the threading at all or possible leaks down the road

I thought it would have been BSP too, I ran a 1/8-27 NPT tap in it and it went in without much resistance and the threads looked great afterwards. I was able to get the fitting quite tight and then used teflon tape. I really don't think leaks will be an issue but of course I'll keep an eye on it.

I was more concerned with drilling and tapping the end of the housing on a casting line so near to the flange and the back side of that sensor hole. It ended up being the lesser of two evils. I guess the other route would have been to use a smaller tap to tap in just the barb fitting that I have off the 90* fitting.

These are great points to bring up, thanks for asking!

there's only a 1 thread/inch (TPI) difference between NPT and BSP at the 1/8" size - 27 NTP TPI vs 28 BSP TPI (and a negligible thread angle/pitch difference, IIRC). The first few threads will go in easily before you run into any trouble.

that being said, I know people have shoved in 1/8" NPT water temp sensors for aftermarket gauges into that spot without running into any trouble re: leaks anything as they get it tight enough (with teflon tape, as you used). I just bring up the point as it's under pressure, and I don't know if there will be any difference with you using that spot as a pass through vs. a blocked spot is all.

regardless, love your work here with this!

That makes sense why it didn't fight me much, thanks for the information!


Also, Thank you Alan for the title change.

Just to be on the safe side I am asking this:

Does your water neck face the correct direction? It looks like it does (I believe they face the direction that the two bolts are on, as opposed to the one on the other side... like a triangle pattern) but there were some 74's that came with water necks facing the other direction. Rather you think ahead on this, ya know?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by futurevr4man

Just to be on the safe side I am asking this:

Does your water neck face the correct direction? It looks like it does (I believe they face the direction that the two bolts are on, as opposed to the one on the other side... like a triangle pattern) but there were some 74's that came with water necks facing the other direction. Rather you think ahead on this, ya know?

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74/72 waterneck comparison
http://wrenchjockey.com/Images/6G74/...hermoWeld2.jpg

his waterneck:
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps3bba53c9.jpg

looks legit to me...can also see the lack of spot for the feed on the far right side compared to the first photo - it looks like the modified 74 neck in the top photo had a spot welded on for the coolant line to plug in on the far right side

just didn't want him to run into this:

https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...57269000_n.jpg

good call. that would be incredibly unfortunate....did it happen to you?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by futurevr4man

just didn't want him to run into this:

---

That would have sucked. I guess there is some luck involved getting the right engine from the importers.

I think the compression on that motor was 210 because it is naturally aspirated (10:1 compression).

The 8:1 motors are lower

Edit: Just opened the manual.
6G72 N/A motors shall be 185 psi, minimum 139 psi
6G72 Turbo motors shall be 156 psi, minimum 115 psi

Not sure if it is different for the 6G74, but I would imagine 10:1 compression is 10:1 compression. As you said, I wouldn't worry about it since it is consistent across all cylinders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sketch

good call. that would be incredibly unfortunate....did it happen to you?

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Who do you think took that picture?! Hahahaha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Uniuno

That would have sucked. I guess there is some luck involved getting the right engine from the importers.

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I had to piece my engine together... hindsight is 20/20. I made it more difficult than I needed to. But it didn't really cost me a lot more money or anything so whatever...

There are two ways to go here, grind the girdle to clear a 2nd gen TT pan and drill the block for the dipstick tube, or mod the 74 pan to clear the t-case and turbo oil drains. My research on the subject returned the girdle grind to be the easier method. After doing it now though I am questioning it. I'll let the pictures do the talking.

The 74 pan is a two piece aluminum/steel thing

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psaa2a2755.jpg

Unmolested girdle

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps47e3d53d.jpg

4-boltyness :-)

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps3ba68acb.jpg

While I was in there I replaced the oil pressure bypass spring with a slightly taller one from a VR4 oil pump

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psfaf38664.jpg

My attempt to keep metal fragments out of the engine.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps6db81d15.jpg

Here I marked where the dipstick relief had to be made

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psc3bb813a.jpg

Started by cutting notches

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps8842d07e.jpg
http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps1bcf9b34.jpg

Then ground them out

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pse34d5722.jpg

Still a long way to go

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps0eb58091.jpg

Losing this 90 degree harbor freight tool slowed progress, had to go buy another one. ( I found the old one the next day, go figure)
I started with a 1/8ish drill bit for a pilot hole, then went to a 7/16 to get all the way through. It's a stepped hole, the tube needs a 25/64 drill bit.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psb49064d7.jpg

I used rare earth magnets to collect metal shavings.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psca4483ec.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps597d12ab.jpg

Dipstick done

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps677debd2.jpg

More grinding..

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps495f2c51.jpg

...a lot more

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps331a05b4.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps3c5224de.jpg

So the girdle is actually just too fat in some places to fit the pan. Right next to the dipstick tube where that hump used to be is where the turbo drain flows into. Had to grind clearance for that to flow as well.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psda25e815.jpg

Now to the other side.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps7f34b7d0.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps60250477.jpg

I used a cut off wheel to remove the bulk of the metal on this side to clear the t-case. Then cleaned it up with a grinder.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psbbddcd03.jpg

The snout of the pan is a bit narrower on the steel 72 pan so a lot of meat had to be removed

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pse5411b9a.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps2ca0ce6f.jpg

I did my best to clean the metal fragments out of the engine, but I knew no matter how hard I tried there were going to be some in places I couldn't get to. So I lined the bottom of the pan with rare earth magnets. These came from ABS pumps from late model Chryslers.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps76c50e4e.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps145d1fe6.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psc2c59dc5.jpg

The aluminum 74 pan flange is thicker than the steel 72 pan, you must use the 72 pan bolts. The 74 bolts are long and will bottom out.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps8fb4488b.jpg

So my NA rear main seal housing and the 74 housing are the same. Apparently the 2nd gen TT rear main seal housing is slightly different. I wasn't able to use those two bolts. I still got decent crush on the RTV so I'm not worried about leaks.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps6f88c201.jpg

I ordered the timing belt and water pump together for the DOHC Montero figuring it would all be the same. Sadly I was wrong. The belt, pulleys, and tensionor were all fine, but the water pump didn't match up with the rear housing. It was only one bolt hole off. Actually, it was also missing the boss for the bracket to attach it to the lower intake plenum as well, but as I normally leave that off it wasn't a concern.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps5cdfcb53.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps8daf7ef4.jpg

The original water pump was super clean and the bearing felt perfect so I used new gaskets and put it back together. I wish I had more time, but this thing is going to NG in just over a week!

Other work completed over the weekend:

Pulled engine out of the car.
Cleaned engine bay with Grime Reaper (awesome stuff)
Installed new timing belt, timing pulleys, and GZP preset cam gears (thanks Coop).
'99 lifters (3sx with tool, the tool is actually really handy, I'm glad I have it now)

Thanks to my buddy Bryan for helping! An extra set of hands while setting timing are extra helpful.

We did find some oil coking in a couple exhaust ports on the heads. I was going to replace the VSS since I have a set laying around, but I figure it's only a matter of time before the factory composite head gaskets give out and I'll be able to change them with the heads off. I really hope it doesn't smoke a whole bunch in the meantime.

If I had thought about it, I would have warned you on the rear main seal. I have a pic of it somewhere...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...58070490_n.jpg

74 on left, 72 on right. I didn't know about the water pump though... I used all 72 stuff on mine

Quote:

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Originally Posted by futurevr4man

If I had thought about it, I would have warned you on the rear main seal. I have a pic of it somewhere...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.n...58070490_n.jpg

74 on left, 72 on right. I didn't know about the water pump though... I used all 72 stuff on mine

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seen that before :)

I'd have just drilled the pan for the new location...

Thanks VR4Man!

Gump, I would have drilled the pan but the wall rolls up right under the bolt hole. Drilling and tapping might be an option, but I don't know if it's worth it. If anything I'll hunt down a 72 TT rear main seal housing for next time.

So after getting the pan on and sealed up I realized I couldn't turn the engine over anymore. The crank was hitting the pan in three places.

One on the top of the lip on the back side of the engine

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps594647ea.jpg

The other two spots are above the t-case

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps51a63a85.jpg

After taking out some frustration over the whole deal with a hammer and several test fits later they finally cleared.

I am usually a little better researched when doing this type of thing. The TT and AWD conversions went much smoother than this.

that's a PITA. at least you figured it out quickly!

It's getting down to the wire to be ready for NG and I just got the engine dropped in last night. I wouldn't be worried about it but I have to rely on an exhaust shop to do the downpipe. If a vendor sold one for 6G74 conversions I would have just bought one and sold the one I have (Pssst, you! hint hint)

Anyway, there were a couple more things that needed modified before it would bolt in.

I quickly measured the rear engine mount boss on the 72

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psf857a48e.jpg


Then compared it to the 74, you can see the gap at the end of the stick. This is actually deceiving, I had to grind away much more than just that little bit. The top mount bolt's boss is actually where it needs to be (no grinding required) and if you hold the mount up to it you'll see an acute angled gap. That's pretty much what I used for reference. You can see a gap now at the other end.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps1f1223a0.jpg

Judging by the aforementioned acute gap I actually needed to grind a little more, but the measurement taken from the mounts in the car and the brackets on the engine were within and 1/8" of the 26.5 they needed to be. It dropped in no problem, but the support bracket to the rear of the trans doesn't quite line up, so I'll be revisiting this next time it comes out.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psef7d2822.jpg

I had to make an adjustment to the water line to the turbo, it was too tight for me to trust the hose not to kink so I added a 45 degree dude in there.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps8425bd15.jpg

The engine to trans plate thing (technical term) needed some clearance to for the rear main seal housing. 45 seconds with the cut off wheel took care of it.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps3d203dd3.jpg

I spent a little bit of time cleaning up the engine bay and hitting the subframe with some fresh paint.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psfb5aeba8.jpg

I dropped the engine without the trans because it's a pain trying to get the trans to go onto an engine swinging from a hoist.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pscb9c9bcc.jpg

Turns out to be a tight fit with the hood

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psca010f34.jpg

Then used the hoist to pick the trans up and a jack on the floor to level it as I slide it onto the engine ever so easily.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pscf5ce5a9.jpg

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...pse095085a.jpg


I got the transmission, t-case, axles in, and hubs put back together tonight. I also messed around with the catback, unfortunately I removed and/or broke (and lost) the mount by the gas tank on the passenger side so I'll have to get one from Mitoska.

The car is back on it's wheels and I'm going to take it to the exhaust shop after work tomorrow. They work from noon to midnightish so it would be awesome if they got it done tomorrow night. I'm hoping they work Saturdays if not. Otherwise I'll be finishing it up on Monday and taking it to PA on Tuesday.

Hot digity!

Super excited to do a ride along.

Quick update before bed.

The guy that owns the exhaust shop was nice enough to work on a Sunday, he was extra nice enough to let me help. He usually does GTR/Corvette exhausts and turbo set ups, but of course he'll make an exception to work on my 3000 and take my money.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps458f2c0e.jpg

While he had the down pipe on the bench doing the finish welding I was clearancing the subframe. I also hung the IPS catback while it was on the hoist, I forgot to take pictures, I'll get some tomorrow.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps97d082bc.jpg

We ended up just adding this spacer and with the clearance made above the downpipe fit great. He wasn't very happy with the aesthetics of these welds, the pipe was very oil/grease contaminated didn't make for pretty welds. I'm just glad it's functional and done.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...psba0b4652.jpg

I towed the car back home and got all the fluids filled, the wire extended for my oil temp sending unit, and all of the accessories bolted up and the belts on.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps9be08dc4.jpg

I moved over to this side and got the slave cylinder reinstalled and then just decided to call it a night.

http://i491.photobucket.com/albums/r...ps9ccc0a4a.jpg

Going to hit the DMV in the AM to get the tags switched back over to it and get back to work on it. I hope to have it running by the afternoon sometime. I still need to gather things and pack for NG!

cooool