Need help installing 13/16 spark plugs...

I ordered NGK BR8EIX non projected, resistor spark plugs. When I opened the boxes I discovered they're 13/16" plugs vs. the standard 5/8". I have a Craftsman 13/16" thin wall spark plug socket and Craftsman 13/16" standard wall spark plug socket but they don't fit past the step in the spark plug holes in the valve covers so I'm unable to reach and torque the plugs. Plugs drop in and I can screw them in using the plug wires. Anyone using 13/16" plugs? What tool are you using to torque them? I was thinking of buying a cheap socket at harbor freight and grinding it down but I figured there's got to be a special socket for this.

Thanks ahead of time.

I run BKR7eix and they fit with the standard socket. You may have to end up grinding a socket down to fit if there's enough room?.

BR7 is a common bike plug so may be wort looking at bike tool suppliers as well.

Try turning the socket down in a lathe.

I'm also pretty sure you can get the same plug in a 5/8" size. Ngk has a chart with all the meanings of the part numbers.

That's what I've done to conquer similar problems in the past (lathe). If you've got the thin-walled socket, you've pretty much got the best thing any manufacturer will sell AFAIK.

Yea, not sure it's worth the trouble.... BKR8EIX is a pretty common and available plug, and has the the correct size hex for the car.

Edit: nevermind.... I missed the non-projected part. BKR's are projected tip...

I don't believe it's going to happen... I'm measuring the tube bore at .945", and the corner to corner of the plug at .915" That's going to leave you a .015" wall on your socket before you turn enough off for clearance. You may as well hammer a socket out of tinfoil, It may be thicker....

But it will only be .015" wall at the corners, the sides will be a lot thicker. He may end up with something similar to an axle socket for a 4x4.

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Originally Posted by donniekak

But it will only be .015" wall at the corners, the sides will be a lot thicker. He may end up with something similar to an axle socket for a 4x4.

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It's 3 to 4 sheets of paper thick. What's he got to lose other than some time and the cost of a socket? :p

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Originally Posted by donniekak

But it will only be .015" wall at the corners, the sides will be a lot thicker. He may end up with something similar to an axle socket for a 4x4.

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By the time you figure in the clearance built into the hex of the socket, and the clearance you'll need to fit down the tube, you'll end up with a wall thickness of .009"-.010" at the corners.

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Originally Posted by AdamVR4

What's he got to lose other than some time and the cost of a socket? :p

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A permanently installed plug if the modified socket isn't strong enough to remove the plug after it's service life. Not to mention a very fun time removing the socket if it wedges in the tube when it breaks.

What I'm saying is that a socket with 6 sides, and nothing but air for corners would do the job. Picture turning it down until all you have are 6 prongs.

My buddy Hal looked at it today. I was pressing to have him turn down a socket in his lathe. He cautioned me on the sidewall clearance and brought up the possibility of breaking a fork and getting the plug stuck. We looked thru the NGK book and can't find these plugs in a 5/8 cap. I want to run a heat range 8, non-projected, resistor, iridium plug. The DSM plugs don't fit so what are my options? Anyone have a Denso , Autolite, or Champion book they can ref for an alternative plug?

Here's the plug guys. Thanks for the help.

http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...psc4ea8527.jpg

NGK BR8EIX - Alternative spark plugs

Anyone know if a Denso 5316 is a resistor plug and have a number for the next step cooler of that style?

If you look for alternative plug for BR8eix you will get the same form (bigger hex).

NGK normally use "es" at the end for projected tip, suprised the "eix" is none projected to be honest!.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=370824027198

Worth a look?.

Can't believe no one makes a 5/8" retracted two step colder range plug with a resistor... Gahh this is why DSM can turn up the wick and another reason they're superior.

I thought you were a proponent of the champion plugs Chris and Trevor were using?

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Originally Posted by familyMAN

I thought you were a proponent of the champion plugs Chris and Trevor were using?

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Plugs work great till you get the circuit hot and try to plug in your laptop. I get so much interference I get logging blackout and laptop disconnects. Happened several times at the track and at the dyno. I talked Tony@T1 Racing aka Injector Dynamics. and advanced .FI Instructor at EFI U about my issues and he pointed the issue out right away. I switched the plugs and the problem subsided.

Have you considered running a projected tip, and just running a heat range colder to keep it in line?

Why not go copper? Bcr8es I believe.

that's so weird, I ran BKR8EIX's for awhile and so has daveslow. I don't remember running into any socket issues at all...

edit
OHHHH BKR8EIX is 5/8 hex, BR8EIX is 13/16

So it looks like what you'd need is a BCR8EIX, which doesn't exist in the catalog, since C is 5/8 hex without projected tip.

yeah I would probably not deal with this... chalk it up as a loss and use them on the daily or something. turning a socket and potentially breaking it off in the plug hole is way too much trouble.

If you are just desperate to run those plugs then machine down the hex on the plug, lol.

My thought as well, would take some time, but doable.

Why not coppers? I run br8es plugs in my talon, gapped to .018" at that, and have no issues.

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Originally Posted by RealMcCoy

Have you considered running a projected tip, and just running a heat range colder to keep it in line?

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I have, and have a set in right now, but I would prefer to move the spark event back and shield it. I know you know this, the projection will work but is more susceptible to ping. The only reason for the projection is fuel economy and idle. When we start building high dynamic cylinder pressures we want to give the combustion event more room to develop before ignition. Hence, "Retracted" or "non-projected" plugs are most beneficial. I want to move the spark event further out and allow more time for combustion to develop to reduce the possibility of ping.

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Originally Posted by donniekak

Why not coppers? I run br8es plugs in my talon, gapped to .018" at that, and have no issues.

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BR8ES is a 13/16" spark plug. See, that's the thing... Evo's, DSM's, Audi, they all have a retracted resistor spark plug for high boost applications. You can't get a thin wall socket around those.

I spoke with an engineer at NGK yesterday, he said NGK does not offer a retracted resistor spark plug with a 5/8" socket receiver. He did suggest using NGK plug# 4554 which is a 5671A-8. He did in-fact state that is a race only application plug and does not have good idle characteristics because it's retracted even further back than the BR8EIX. He also said it has no resistor and the interference may run really high and can possibly cause issues with vehicle electronics. He made additional mention to possible circuit impedance matching issues.

Since no one makes plug to fit I'm now leaning on turning down a socket. For heaven sake it's only 18lbs of tq and I can bench test it first Give me some recc's on stronger sockets I can turn down guy's. I think standard vanadium or whatever is likely too soft. What's a good choice?

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Originally Posted by donniekak

Why not go copper? Bcr8es I believe.

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Google shows that these are available through eBay. Mostly in UK but a couple popped up here.

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Originally Posted by J. Fast

I have, and have a set in right now, but I would prefer to move the spark event back and shield it. I know you know this, the projection will work but is more susceptible to ping. The only reason for the projection is fuel economy and idle. When we start building high dynamic cylinder pressures we want to give the combustion event more room to develop before ignition. Hence, "Retracted" or "non-projected" plugs are most beneficial. I want to move the spark event further out and allow more time for combustion to develop to reduce the possibility of ping.




BR8ES is a 13/16" spark plug. See, that's the thing... Evo's, DSM's, Audi, they all have a retracted resistor spark plug for high boost applications. You can't get a thin wall socket around those.

I spoke with an engineer at NGK yesterday, he said NGK does not offer a retracted resistor spark plug with a 5/8" socket receiver. He did suggest using NGK plug# 4554 which is a 5671A-8. He did in-fact state that is a race only application plug and does not have good idle characteristics because it's retracted even further back than the BR8EIX. He also said it has no resistor and the interference may run really high and can possibly cause issues with vehicle electronics. He made additional mention to possible circuit impedance matching issues.

Since no one makes plug to fit I'm now leaning on turning down a socket. For heaven sake it's only 18lbs of tq and I can bench test it first Give me some recc's on stronger sockets I can turn down guy's. I think standard vanadium or whatever is likely too soft. What's a good choice?

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I know, you would use bcr8es.

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Originally Posted by donniekak

I know, you would use bcr8es.

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I spoke with NGK tech support again this morning. That is a real plug however, it's NGK Japan only.. Ironically that plug is specific to 3000gt and Mini Cooper.

Where do I get this plug?

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Originally Posted by familyMAN

Google shows that these are available through eBay. Mostly in UK but a couple popped up here.

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^ eBay

If the 13/16 plugs are easier to source, why not just ream the plug tube? Looks like they've got plenty of meat to them....

ebay shows a bunch

bcr8es | eBay

This sounds strange, but your other option may be to setup some external plug resistors

One thing I would like to make mention of... The Electrical Engineer I spoke with at NGK USA said they are specifically aware of numerous non resistor spark interference issues. He said they have documented cases of throttle position sensor interference and logout black screens with AEM EMS.

I started getting the blackout screen on my laptop with the VC53's and my hot idle was really shitty. I'll post up my experiences with those plugs later.

I am going to try some resistor plugs again too. Have had a speed sensor issue lately and replacing it didn't fix the issue. Thought maybe some weird interference with AEM EMS, HKS DLI and the non-resistor plugs.

I know it works for most people including ray and Chris but they are not recommended by HKS or AEM for those products. Have some regular, projected tip to give my hypothesis a try and will order the non-projected, resistor plugs off eBay if it works.

I've seen none resistor plugs destroy cdi based ignition ecu's on plenty of bikes, also interfere with alarms etc..

Wouldn't run them on the car because of this as I have the HKS DLI and don't want to take chances..

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Originally Posted by KeithMac

I've seen none resistor plugs destroy cdi based ignition ecu's on plenty of bikes, also interfere with alarms etc..

Wouldn't run them on the car because of this as I have the HKS DLI and don't want to take chances..

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Hey Keith, from the link Chris B posted it looks like the BCR8ES have a VP-4 and standard option. Can you check an automotive supply in the UK and see what the differences are?

Eric, did you swap out yet? Which plugs are you ordering tge VP-4 or the standard?

I haven't run them yet. Engine/trans are out right now. Just the regular NGKs to test. My speedo and logged speed in AEM are "jumpy" so want to see if it makes a difference.

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Originally Posted by donniekak

I know, you would use bcr8es.

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Thank you for the help Don. I purchased 12 of these plugs from The Green Spark Plug Company out of the United Kingdom. They were like $40 with shipping.