Primary Mod List...
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...psd01d017c.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by UPPCOS
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps190ef59a.jpg
I shared this story on FB on the 3SGTO homepage. Prop's to CK for the monster build!
Primary Mod List...
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...psd01d017c.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by UPPCOS
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...ps190ef59a.jpg
I shared this story on FB on the 3SGTO homepage. Prop's to CK for the monster build!
egads...what rear end monstrosity is that?
OMG... Video sounds ridic!
Insane 1000HP Single Turbo VR4 - YouTube
Per the post on FB apparently:
The brand is Gforce 1320. I didn't want CK and the guys to have to deal with gear installation and what not so I requested they completely assemble it before shipping it to UPP. The axels are from Gforce as well. It is their 9" rear end. capable of withstanding 1000 rwhp. yet it comes with a drive shaft that is rated at 750+. It better not go down! lol. that damn thing was the most expensive mod that went into the car. Well, next to the motor. I am interested to see how it will feel to drive. Those are the "wheel hop eliminator" axels.
Cool build and nice to see a high compression build. What's the uncorrected numbers? and why in the hell wouldn't they add cams? power goes off a cliff after 6500
Can we get more links and pics here? Just nasty. How are they doing this on stock cams? What was ipo/ninjas best stock cam e95 awhp?
835awhp on 3sx dyno and 9something on Virtual Dyno after some more boost and timing. This one at 1000awhp is using nitrous to sneak more o2 in. (plus we don't know the correction factor yet which could be 20-25% based on the other dyno's posted here)
We're chatting on Colorado3s atm. I'll direct him over here...Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamVR4
I was supprised to find there is another 3kgt sight (this one), I was even more supprised that I was already a registered user! LOL
This is my baby, and it's a STOCK rear end, not a 1320 as posted earlier. The GF1320 is a rear end for a twin turbo GTO that we're working on (American GTO).
It's stock cams because I'm too damn cheap to buy any, or the valve train needed for that matter, but I did splurge on some 3SX adjustable gears! The power doesn't fall off till 7000, the dip you see on the one graph (@6500) is where the nitrous shuts down, and a little of me lifting off the pedal at the end (early) before shutting down the dyno run.
We're running on E85 until it hits boost, then the secondary methanol injectors kick in and after 15psi it's a 50/50 ratio. Technically I only hit 894 on these cams as N02 is rather cheating. But 894 vs 835 is probably a combination of compression, the methanol (frozen octane), and the turbo's efficiency.
Honestly I will do cams eventually, as I love the way my wifes 272'd evo sounds at idle. That's really all I want is the idle, I could care less about more power! ;) I wasn't really even done with the build on this, but a couple shit talking people pissed me off.....and I finished early!
CK
Thanks for popping in here to post! You doing anything special with heads or gaskets to hold it all together with 11:1 and nitrous? Also, what are the uncorrected numbers?
This is the first real high compression build we've seen CK. What info can you share regarding the differences in the 11:1 vs your last 8:1 low compression setup? Do you like single or twins more?
Just ARP's Tq'd to 100, and and MLS gasket, nothing special. It is SAE corrected, because we have no air density up here. Not sure exactly what the numbers were but 1.2?ish CF?
The last build was actually 10:1, because it was a Stock NA bottom end; that's the one we pushed to 721whp, and then triple charged at 620s whp.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Fast
Higher comp spools the turbo's sooner, which is kinda needed with this big ass thing! Honestly though I think I've liked the twin 16G's the best. We pulled 721 outta those which was really more than enough, and it was still relatively fun to drive with decent spool times. This one huge one is kinda laggy (ok REALLY laggy), and not as fun on the street. Course I honestly haven't driven 1000whp on the street yet, it's still parked on the dyno while we finish testing some exhaust stuff, so I may change my mind! LOL
721 - uncorrected is likely ~575 which is I believe similar to what Chris did on the stock NA block back when he was racing FWD. Nice to see others push stock parts to show what is possible.
An 11:1 16G sounds like fun!:D
The intake manifold... how long are the runners? Is it sheet metal plated to stock lowers or is it custom? How much earlier do you spool and hit peak tq?
What drivetrain mods are in place?
Sheet metal intake, stock lower. 2" dia on the runners, ~5" long? Really didn't care much on those, I'm blowing the boost in, I just wanted to get to the rear plugs easily, and I needed the TB on the other side. I'd have to find a graph on the 16G's and overlay it with these. It was enough that there is a considerable annoying difference.....but then the NO2 does make up for it! :P Only drive train mod is the Comp Stg5 4puck unsprung. Everything else is stock. Jack went through at one point and freshened it up, but nothing special, so it isn't going to last long! I'll be coming to see you about that before too long I'm sure.
I'm trying to wrap my head around picking up 150hp with a 75 shot. Why isn't the power gain 1:1? Is that typical behavior for nos?
Can you share a timing map screenshot?
Did you have any issues with the 3sx cam gears?
Some recent developments evolved with cams for our platform. BC has revised their old asymmetric grinds and updated with 4 unique cams.
Rev that thing out another 1500rpm bro.
A few reasons on the 1:1. The "shot" size is really just a guess. A "shot" will change whether it's in a 8:1 comp or 11:1 comp, it will also change depending on how much timing you have to pull. Add in the freezing factor of the meth, the stability of the octane (w/o cutting any timing), the comp, and the fact that a CF is being applied to something that is immune to altitude changes (so technically is the only thing that shouldn't have a CF applied), and you have retarded gains. Nitrous cooling is great. Nitrous cooling a heated FI charge is better, nitrous instantly evaporating meth to sub ambient temps on a FI setup is AMAZING! Start the run with 113* F AIT's, end with ~50* F temps on a 75*-80* day. Actually colder than that, but that's as fast of a response I can get out of the GM IAT. Since there is frost condensing on the intake mani, it's REALLY cold!
3xs Cam gears.....They didn't do shit! Not the 70hp or whatever is advertised anyway. Didn't gain anything. I'm still going to play with them a bit, but it's tedious and my ADD is preventing me! ;)
Good stuff man. Surprised to hear the results with the cam gears. Did you degree the OEM cams in or did you put them in at 0I,0E like stock? It was discovered some time ago the alignment on their gears is off a couple degrees on the cam sprockets (it was actually Gonzo who discovered the issue; CO3S mod). You actually lose HP if you don't degree them and set them to true zero, which isn't the little 0 hashmarks on the gears. If you use a degree wheel you're good tho.
Did I read (4) walbro fuel pumps for the E-85, how many for the meth or are you just dumping it in the gas tank? Do you have any opinions on switching over to a mechanical pump driven off the cam gears? Hal has one set with some ID2000's and can fill a swimming pool in like 10 sec's at 7000rpm's with it LOL.
What's up with the exhaust? Did you bottleneck to it yet? How could you tell when you hit the restriction level? Boost gauge needle bouncing at full boost from the back pressure? When you disconnect the cat back the condition goes away and engine pumps more boost?
Dang, I have a ton of questions regarding deck compression and the headgasket without a compression rod or o-ring fix. Lot's of other stuff too. Did you balance the bob weight to 50% or did you cheat it a few degrees? Damn, it's late! Got to work early... pick this up tomorrow bro!
Like AdamVr4 asked, got anymore pics and a complete mod list with details?
1000hp at 5700rpm. put cams on that and it'll have one crazy power band when you rev it higher.
T76...why the old tech? Budget? Nice build; good to see a high comp set-up. :)
Jeremy
Saw it on FB, very cool man!
Yo Erron, you breached the head gasket at 800 right? That was an MLS with stock headstuds?
Yes sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Fast
In hind sight however, it very well could have been the cap exceeding pressure due to not knowing the REAL temp of the coolant from the stock Mitsu sender. (with the AIM sensor in now, I'd like to re-test)
Yea, the gears were pretty cheap, and you can easily tell they're not aligned right. I didn't degree them, just played with them on the dyno to see what made the best power. Mechanical pump is cool, but unless you have a rear pump you may get vapor lock sucking from the rear. Plus walbro's are cheap and easy, and I'm already limited for room under the hood.
The exhaust is just a 3" that y's to 2x 2.5" and can mufflers that's been on there for forever. It's just not up to flowing what's needed. We did a test with the full down-pipe attached this morning, and no chance in spool/power, so I'm going to assume the DP flows enough for what we need, just going to bump the exhaust up to a 4", and no more fart can mufflers. With the exhaust installed it spools way slower, especially for a large turbo. Instead of ramping quickly when the turbo does spool (like a large frame should), it acts more linear like a centrifugal SC. Alot more back pressure, and alot less power up top, just getting choked out.
The fuel pumps are 2x E85 and 2x Meth, they don't mix, ever. 2x sets of injectors (12 total), AEM controls them as secondaries, and introduces them slowly with boost. 850cc primaries (E85) and 1600cc secondaries (meth). By 15psi it's a 50/50 distribution meaning 50% of the fuel injected is E85, 50% injected by the secondaries is Meth. AEM automatically scrolls back the IDC on the primaries to account for the secondaries. Or I can shut the secondary system down, run low boost (~18psi) and run off pure E85.
I'm sure I can post more pics, not really sure what else to put in the mod list. lol
CK
Cool build, do you have any more pictures / link to the build thread?
cheers,
Ewan
What are the exact details on this 76mm turbo? What turbine, what A/R, etc...? Frankly the #'s smell like bullshit at 27psi, even with a 75 shot..
It's CO. It will have a 20-25% correction factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by HellBringer
A 75 shot on top of race gas = 75-100 hp.Quote:
Originally Posted by HellBringer
A 75 shot on top of evaporating methanol = 100 horsepower + another 50 for the charge cooling temp density increae + no detonation + max timing adavance. You don't have to hold any timing back because it won't detonate like racegas mixed with NOS will. Not hard to believe at all really. Just not something you'd normally see on a V6. Meth on top of NOS is tech you typically see on SBC's and BBC's. It's flippin cool!
Simple to call something BS if you have no experience or explanation for it because you don't understand Enthalpy of Vaporization. LOL, CK might answer tough talk like that (he's a pretty smart feller).
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Fast
Find some Wikipedia since your own inquiry?Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Fast
Not really. I had to stop and think for a lil bit about why the power increase wasn't 1:1. At first I thought it was just a NOS on top of E-85. It wasn't sinking into my pea sized brain CK's also direct injecting methanol and evaporating ALL with NOS. Once he re-explained it I started thinking to myself, well geeze that's the same conceptual idea as compound turbocharging except instead of compressing you're evaporating. You compound the density from the evaporating ethanol with the evaporating methanol. Just something I've never seen but understood when he re-explained the process and I considered the composition and mass of liquids likely being injected. It's absolutely brilliant if you ask me! But, I do wonder about the engine longevity due to it being supercooled and the crazy high cylinder pressure likely being generated.Quote:
Originally Posted by familyMAN
It's definitely something new to this platform. I don't have doubts about the results. I just want to see some more. I also want to see if the head lift issue is an issue with all that power or if it stems from something else. Certainly makes for an interesting discussion.
Uncorrected, with nitrous it would be in the 8xxhp/7xxtq range if only a 20% (but many times your correction is 25%). Wouldn't cylinder pressure would be like any other 7xxtq 3.0. Certainly, not unheard of when you have chris's car, the little dr750 cars are getting close to that tq/cylinder pressure, and of course many 72/74 strokers at or above tq.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Fast
The difference is it's instant. Using DR750 cars is a perfect example. NOS tends to deliver the hp hit of the pill. Tq is often double the pill. That was my experience with race and nitrous. Never messed with corn, so I have no thoughts on that.
Jeremy
Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Fast
Interesting theories... Sorry, but to anyone that's been around awhile, these numbers are complete horseshit. If there is indeed a 20% or greater correction factor then that answers most of the questions, and very obviously makes these numbers a complete joke. That type of correction on a FI setup is absolutely laughable to begin with, so what was the point?
Tell you what, let's cut all of the bullshit and forthcoming engineering buzzwords... I'll put my money where my mouth is: take this car to the track and make 2 passes on video in the mid 150's; ET is does not matter - should be easily doable with the alleged WHP - and I'll Paypal you or the owner $300. Make it a $600 if you happen to click off a 9 on at least 1 of the 2. That will easily cover your transport, entry fees, etc...
:Clap:Almost lost my coffee!Quote:
Originally Posted by HellBringer
Colorado Springs has a little better air than Denver. Air density is usually in the 78-80% range so the CF is around 1.2. I believe the cylinder pressure will actually be much higher. The latent heat of vaporization of gasoline, even race gas is much lower vs. ethanol which is a decent evaporative cooler. The methanol portion is a super evaporative cooler and then he's spraying the cocktail(pill). I want to say it's an equivalent to running something like 150+ octane fuel when you compound them together. I believe the eth/meth/nos will actually absorb more heat in the compression cycle which will effectively reduce the combustion pressure in compression but that means it has to increase at a higher rate with more area in the expansion process to have the same area in an otto cycle curve and the same power output.Quote:
Originally Posted by familyMAN
What I wonder is, if the typical HG breach from the block/head expanding (which results in deck warpage) stems from higher latent heat of vaporization from lower octane gas? If you lower the latent heat and keep the cylinders cooler will the metal not expand as much and the head gasket hold at higher hp levels and clamp with even greater cylinder pressure? That's something interest to me. Only CK or someone with nitromethane injection experience would know that answer. I have no experience with the pill CK is shooting. It's fascinating to see new lines in the sand drawn and crossed. I will ping him and see if he has time to answer.
LOL, I dont care man. I have some experience with seeing vehicles here at altitude on a dyno and putting out 600 uncorrected. With an SAE Correction the numbers were 1.25 and 750whp.Quote:
Originally Posted by HellBringer
Going to sea level these were the REAL numbers. SEE the correction factor are 1? That means they are both uncorrected. They are from the same car at altitude and then driving on a trailer and going directly onto a dyno and doing a pull on the same setup. So if you take the typical 1.25 dyno correction factor and consider it, it's really not horseshit at all. It's quite obvious you don't have any experience or real world results to share so here's some.
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/y...s/bothbaro.jpg
See the difference in the in/hg...? Yeah, that's altitude difference from sea level vs 9000ft 75% density equivalent right there.
Is this your car? and where was the sea level dyno?
Why wouldn't you have posted that dyno until now with all of the talk on altitude correction over the past year here (threads you were even involved in)?
Edit: what was the boost pressure on each?
It's a shame there is such a huge difference in outside air temp. I know it won't skew numbers that much, but it is still something to consider.