What the hell am I doing wrong!!! Chrome Tuning

After a trip out to cars and coffee doing a little tuning I decided to try and get the trims locked in a little better then they were. After getting my injectors set I never messed with the tune anymore. The 560's are set in chrome as 450 or so to get the car to run right. Low trims where sitting about 9 so I needed to lean it out a bit at idle. I go into the Maf smoothing table and bump the 0-100 range up 2. Start the car up and let it run. I set my shop timer for 20 and just let the car run in the garage while I work on other things. I monitored it for about ten mins and I could see the low trims starting to recover and both banks get closer to within the +/- 5 range. So I went off to do some other work. I come back and now the low trims are at 12.5 both F/R. So I go back in and add more to the 0-100 VE range to try and lean it out and the trims just never recovered. Wideband is showing now the car idling in the 19-20 AFR range but the O2 Feedback is still showing 12.5 meaning the ECU is still trying to pull fuel for some reason. See logs #1 & 2

So at this point I stop and figure best to go and rescale the injectors as the ECU is still thinking the car is rich. set them up to something like 545 and set the VE table back to stock. Start the car and let it run for a bit then log the results. Same thing, Trims still stuck at 12.5 and wideband is showing 18-21 AFR. See log #3

So someone please explain this to me as what the ECU is seeing and what my WB is seeing are complete opposites. I even tried to just dial in the AFR at idle to be around 15.5-16 like it should be and after about 15 mins I come back and the ECU had adjusted the AFR to 13, trims were still all sitting at 12.5. I always wait 20 min or so between changes to see if anything is reflected in the log and seems no matter what I do the trims are stuck now at 12.5 even though the 02's cycle and the WB shows it being lean. then randomly the ECU will just upright do some stupid shit and knock the AFR all over the place. I am really starting to hate this Mitsi ECU code shit.

Files Here - https://www.dropbox.com/s/52s2s87ai0...ssues.zip?dl=1

Positive trims are the ECU trying to add fuel IIRC. So if you are seeing +12.5 and a lean wideband that makes sense and you should add fuel.

No, negative means it is too lean and you need to add fuel. Positive is too rich and you need to remove fuel.

Greg E goes over it all in his tuning thread - http://www.3sgto.org/threads/10775-H...nd-a-Flash-ECU

Sorry Greg but incorrect. 12.5 means the ECU is trying to add fuel. Your injector settings are too small for 560s. Mine are 600. You need more fuel obviously. Set for 600 and then add fuel with VE until the ECU reads below 12.5.

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So here is what Greg E has posted in his tuning thread which is what I have been following:

Quote:

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Say, for example, your Low trim Front is -10.6% and your Low trim rear is -2.8%. We want to get that front trim back above -5% but not going so far that it brings the rear trim out of spec either. What this means is we want to add at least 6% more of fuel to bring that trim within spec. Tuning Chrome to bring those trims back within that 5% range is actually quite easy. Especially if you're familiar with this table:

The first row in the table shows us that anything under 101 HZ the ECU uses the Low fuel trim and from 101 to 503 HZ the ECU uses the mid trim.

What this means is we need to add another 6% to the MAF Smoothing cells in the low fuel trim range.

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So his numbers are in the negative and he is adding to the VE table which would add more Fuel. Am I wrong in thinking that adding to the VE table fools the ECU into seeing more Air hence adding more fuel to the mixture? As that is how it worked with the other piggybacks like the SAFC. You increase the airflow the ECU see's to trick it into thinking it has more air than it actually does so it deliveries more fuel.

I think the problem is he never plainly stated what adding or subtracting to the tables actually does. With his statement of "add at least 6% more of fuel" means he is wanting to add more fuel, but if his trims are in the negative which means he has too much fuel, why would you add more fuel?!?!? See the confusion here.

That quote is mis-worded. -10.6% trim means the ecu is pulling 10% fuel. You would want to remove 10% fuel, so the trims get close to 0.

Removing 10% from the VE table would be one way to do that.

But he is not removing from the VE table, he is adding to the VE table.

The question that needs answering is does adding to the VE table add or remove fuel?

The way I understand is that adding/increase the value in the VE table adds more fuel. If that is the case then Greg E's quote is completely wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrGonzo

But he is not removing from the VE table, he is adding to the VE table.

The question that needs answering is does adding to the VE table add or remove fuel?

The way I understand is that adding/increase the value in the VE table adds more fuel. If that is the case then Greg E's quote is completely wrong.

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Adding to the ve table does add fuel. Removing removes it.

The confusion starts at the fuel table, where ADDING (increasing the number), REMOVES fuel (makes more lean). It trips up everyone who is used to something like the AEM that uses injector pulse width where a larger number means more fuel. The fuel table is better thought of as a target "AFR" table (the numbers don't actually correlate to AFR unless your maf tables and corrections are dead on), instead of the injector table.

The VE table acts opposite.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrGonzo

But he is not removing from the VE table, he is adding to the VE table.

The question that needs answering is does adding to the VE table add or remove fuel?

The way I understand is that adding/increase the value in the VE table adds more fuel. If that is the case then Greg E's quote is completely wrong.

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Sorry about the confusion. Removing from VE decreases fuel, adding increases. I can't edit that post anymore as its over 3 years old. :(

Even more sad is no one caught it before now either...