DR750's V1 guess the dyno

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Originally Posted by J. Fast

Yes, there's protection there from the coating on startup but that's not the enemy of your engine. Friction is. When metal gets hot from elevated friction levels it fatigues and distorts. You ever spin an engine over by hand with a WPC vs without? It's a night and day difference. Less friction, less heat, lower heat, less stress on rotating hingepoints and fasteners. The benefit is half-life service interval extension.

There's nothing wrong with Oliver Rods. I was just throwing information out there. Bigger wrists and .more thread bite typically indicate more strength. I'm sure as you recently discovered... the good rods have those characteristics and ain't cheap. Olivers are a significant upgrade from BC's. I'm sure you saw that spread Ray did comparing the two. I compared rods and pins as well some time ago and have my own favorites. I have no run time on Olivers so I can't speak for them other than a side by side.


Everyone's always wanting proof on what lasts under stress. Proof is results and how long shit lasts till you have to take it apart for servicing.

All I do is drive and change the oil, 5w30. What's in there may not be the best out there, or the lightest, or blessed by the big 3, but it's still together and I have long term road race track tested results. There's not many guys out there who can run all out at 30+psi boost levels on a roadcourse and do pulls from 70mph to 175mph every minute for hours and hours. I've been doing it for years and years without component fatigue or failure.

I really feel for ya bro. All the time and money. You'll find your own way.

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Thanks for your thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Forest Gump

Jeff, allow me to try to be helpful and don't take this as criticism.

What I see looking at your pics is a classic case of too much timing. Not only are the center mains wiped they have been beat on so hard that they are delaminating. The crank has bent from the excessive cylinder pressure and beat out the mains and the rest followed. I think you are doing the right thing switching to Oliver rods for 700AWHP, but I don't think any of the parts besides maybe the 4340 cranks could have taken this.

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Not taking anything wrong from you. Find out what kind of timing Ray is running on his setup and then let me know if his timing is comperable to what I have posted. This setup runs less timing at all RPM's than my 19T setup did with similar boost and making comperable power. Did you ever pull the girdle on yours when it spun the rod? All I remember from your thread was seeing everyone mention too much timing. Then I remember Ray posted that it just happens sometimes. I didn't feel like posting pictures of all the items that would've shown detonation issues but, trust me they all looked fine. I know what peppering looks like and there was none on any parts. If it truely was the tune I would expect all the mains to be beat up and all the rods uppers to be hammered. Not the case here. All the rods were fine on the upper halves and the only reason #3 spun was due to oil starvation because of excessive main bearing clearance on the #2 main from the crankshaft being contorted. I made mention of a jump rope earlier and if you think about the crank being curved like a jump rope you will see what I have been saying. Once it was bent more abuse just continued the process.

The plan is to back it down on a regular basis and only turn it up on occasion. It was making 600AWHP on pump gas on a daily basis so to say I wasn't aggressive with it would be just dumb but I rarely at best saw any knock.

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Originally Posted by Jimvr4

Jeff are you running a stock flywheel and stock harmonic balancer?

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Was running stock balancer with RPS flywheel. Going to stock flywheel this go around.

Jeff

Todds car took out the center mains from excessive timing down low along with making good power(450tq around 3500rpms) but no counts of knock, besides the 1-2 from the noisy stroker up top on the inital pulls before it started to come apart(the mains)

Jason

All it takes is one dose of knock at 680+

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Originally Posted by kywhitelightning

Thanks for your thoughts.



Not taking anything wrong from you. Find out what kind of timing Ray is running on his setup and then let me know if his timing is comperable to what I have posted. This setup runs less timing at all RPM's than my 19T setup did with similar boost and making comperable power. Did you ever pull the girdle on yours when it spun the rod? All I remember from your thread was seeing everyone mention too much timing. Then I remember Ray posted that it just happens sometimes. I didn't feel like posting pictures of all the items that would've shown detonation issues but, trust me they all looked fine. I know what peppering looks like and there was none on any parts. If it truely was the tune I would expect all the mains to be beat up and all the rods uppers to be hammered. Not the case here. All the rods were fine on the upper halves and the only reason #3 spun was due to oil starvation because of excessive main bearing clearance on the #2 main from the crankshaft being contorted. I made mention of a jump rope earlier and if you think about the crank being curved like a jump rope you will see what I have been saying. Once it was bent more abuse just continued the process.

The plan is to back it down on a regular basis and only turn it up on occasion. It was making 600AWHP on pump gas on a daily basis so to say I wasn't aggressive with it would be just dumb but I rarely at best saw any knock.



Was running stock balancer with RPS flywheel. Going to stock flywheel this go around.

Jeff

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Ray said the mains looked hammered from too much timing or detonation/preignition. There was no evidence of recent detonation I could see, but after seeing all the carbon cleaned off the heads there are some tiny specks, but they could be from years ago.

The center mains go away earlier than the ends because they have to support 4 rod loads and feed oil to 4 rods.

The meth issues you had last year could've been enough to lead to this.

Yeah at that power level(where Jeff is) once you see knock, its already broken or will be soon.

Jason

Ok taking under consideration, I just built a new timing map. Softened VE peak up a bunch. Pulled 4* at 4000RPM and 3* at 4500RPM. Interpolated the remaining portion and pulled 1* up at 7500RPM. This is still higher than stock timing but if this was the cause, it'll certainly take longer to tear things up. This will go hand in hand with turning the boost down just a little for everyday street driving. I will build another map for race gas and big boost and soften VE peak up a bit but maintain the 26* timing peak up top. I refuse to turn the car into a turd for fear of breaking it again, but I will be cutting oil filters open from here on out as it was a practice I've not been doing. Maybe I could've caught this earlier had I been checking but, I guess we'll never know.

Just to be completely clear though, other than on Von's dyno where there was a lack of alcohol, it never knocked during VE peak. It would either happen at 5200 or 6200 +/- 200RPM. VE peak is near 4500RPM as it is still a stock cammed/IM car.

Jeff

So you have an eta on getting her back together? Other than rods, crank, bearings, and a little less timing, any other changes planned?

Jeff...post a picture of your updated map if you could please...:)

You can email it to me also...I could also post it in the other timing thread if you want..

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Originally Posted by familyMAN

So you have an eta on getting her back together? Other than rods, crank, bearings, and a little less timing, any other changes planned?

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Don't quote me...but IMO he's getting everything in the shorty minus pistons..

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Originally Posted by familyMAN

So you have an eta on getting her back together? Other than rods, crank, bearings, and a little less timing, any other changes planned?

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2 months as long as the rods are shipped within reason. I've been busy in the garage lately so I haven't been able to give mine the attention it needs but I will do all the cleaning as it was bathed by a machine shop near 1 year ago. The bores looked good at a quick glance.

None unless you have another suggestion. Like I already said, the parts that typically show signs of detonation, looked good. #2 and #4 rod bearings were wore and #3 spun. If you think about it you'll understand why and that also lines up with why I need new wrist pins and connecting rods. All the rest of the rod bearings were in good shape. No signs of flattening at all like others have posted around here.

Nomie, once I build a race gas map I'll send you both to put up. I honestly have confidence in the map that was in it, I just need to tone it down a bit on a daily basis as my financial advisor, as coop would call her, says that a hobby like this is hard on the marriage.

At the NG I plan on having C16 in it and it will have some fire in the oven.

Jeff