Not voting because there is no way I'll be going. If I lived midwest or east coast I WOULD be voting and going.
Not voting because there is no way I'll be going. If I lived midwest or east coast I WOULD be voting and going.
I agree. A weeks vacation and $2000 is a big gamble on maybe having a great time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimvr4
$100 and a few hours drive would be worth it just to see.
I don't know for sure but it seems like a mostly east of the mississippi crew of attendees, with some of us westerners sprinkled in with the mix. Maybe a competing west cost event would actually benefit the community on both coasts?
In the interest of equality and all that, yeah, you bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by donniekak
Gotta rustle-up some organizers, and there you go.
Facilities aren't much thinner-on-the-ground, either :)
Hey west coasters, rather than grumbling about the NG location maybe you can revive this?
West Coast National Convention
If you can afford, it's not a gamble. It becomes an addiction that has you waiting for the next one to come along. I tow my car from RI to where ever it's held at 8.6mpg of diesel, plus hotel, plus I do every event, plus what ever i break lol, plus I bring my wife and 2 kids, so trust me when I say it's cost me a lot to go, but my family and I have the best time every year at NG.Quote:
Originally Posted by donniekak
And at my first NG (the one that started my addiction) I did not do a single event and did not know a single person there.
Jim I would be willing to meet you halfway and caravan with you. I know how to make really good time.
I was a total newb knowing only a couple of people before last year's NG. I knew people from chatbox and a few local members and that was it. Still had a blast! I did every event, but I think I would have still had fun not doing them all. I only did one event this year thanks to car issues and had fun :)
I can't take that much time off unless my startup fails and I divorce my wife of 30 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by R/T93
So you're saying there's a chance?? :w00t:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimvr4
Quote:
Originally Posted by donniekak
I organized a West Coast event (WCNC) from 2006 - 2008. It was held in Las Vegas all 3 years, but the only people who showed up were from California and the Las Vegas area. We had deals on hotel rooms and our registration fees were only $25, but still, hardly anyone bothered to come except for a few regulars. I wanted to show the 3S community that the West Coast owners could gather in decent numbers, instead, I proved that most West Coast owners won't drive more than 100 miles to an event.
... so you're saying there's a chance!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimvr4
I was going to say, I am 99% sure that you all had a West Coast NG type thing and no one showed. For multiple years. I always hear grumbling about how far east the NG is, but at the end of the day, we get the numbers to come. Even if it is just a few hundred at most... better than 30.Quote:
Originally Posted by 93STLTH
Quote:
Originally Posted by 93STLTH
Too slow!! :Bwahaha:Quote:
Originally Posted by futurevr4man
We had 49 3S's at our best year, still a respectable turnout, but not a single owner from Arizona, Utah, New Mexico or Colorado showed up any of the 3 years. If you can't get them together for a weekend in Vegas, what will it take?Quote:
Originally Posted by futurevr4man
:blink:Quote:
Originally Posted by 93STLTH
And then you were bannedQuote:
Originally Posted by 93STLTH
That was part of the reason for my getting banned. The admin at that site didn't like the fact that I was doing more for the members than he was. He did show up to the event in 2007 and tried to hit on all the girlfriends and wives that were in attendance. And I'm the one that's supposed to be a bad influence??Quote:
Originally Posted by green-lantern
I'm a big advocate of publicizing the identities of the putzes who live among us, Tom.Quote:
Originally Posted by 93STLTH
Who are we talking about?
For those of you who are interested in the roadcourse, I've been to many of the candidates. Here's my thoughts on them:
Michigan:
Gingerman - Great roadcourse, freshly repaved just this spring ('15). TONS of run-off for newbies, there's only one corner where there's even potential to hit anything. There are a couple technical corners, but it's a fairly easy course. There are 3 major passing zones that even the beginners should be able to use. This is a short course (2.14miles), most people should be sub-2min lap times. There are bleachers in the middle of the track which allows you to see the whole coarse. South Haven is just a couple miles away, so you can hit up the beach afterwards.
Waterford Hills - A more technical course with a couple elevations changes. They've also done some work recently, but it is an aging track/facility. Sound regulations are EXTREMELY strict here as it's in a residential area and it's measured on driver's side, which is a problem for some of us. There is less runoff here and things can get hairy quick if things go sideways. This is another short course at 1.42miles. The paddocks are dirt and fairly small and the road to the course is (at least was) VERY rough dirt road. The do allow you on top of the building which allows you to see the whole track. Waterford is a nice area, mostly residential. TONS of lakes nearby if you like to kayak/canoe.
Grattan - Only Michigan course I haven't been to, yet.
Pittsburgh:
Race Pitt - I've been on this course at NG '14 before the addition. IMO, this is a happy medium of difficulty. Facility is very nice. I think the new addition will make this a very fun course. Let's not forget they have the gokart track on site :P
Indianapolis:
Lucas Oil Raceway - Decent track, though not good enough to make me want to return. This track feels like an afterthought and incorporates their dragstrip. Not necessarily bad but the rest of their course feels like it was.... added. A few of the corners were very rough which made it interesting when it unsettled the car. One thing I didn't like was you have to cross over the course to get to and from the paddock.
Not sure the second option Lori's talking about, maybe the one at Indianapolis Motor Speedway?
EDIT: Putnam park - Haven't been but I've only heard good things about it.
If I think of anything to add, I'll edit my post.
Second choice in Indy is Putnam park ;)
That was my first one and it did seem like an after thought. Part of it went through the parking lot lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Man
That one looks interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by bridge
Damn, don't know how I forgot about that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by bridge
Have you been on that one?Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Man
We have not been looking at waterford. I was told it was too tight of a track to be fun for most 3S drivers. (tight turns with no runnoff)
It's no tighter of a track than gingerman, just minimal runoff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan92RTTT
I have not, but I'm pretty sure that'll be my next trackday if I go again before next NG :lo5l:Quote:
Originally Posted by green-lantern
IIRC Gingerman with their new extension is now 2.2miles
2.14, but that doesn't change how tight the turns are. The extension really didn't add that much.
Great minds think alike! I obviously didn't refresh my page before I posted... haha!Quote:
Originally Posted by 93STLTH
And I have a cousin with a lake house less than 5 miles from it :suspect:Quote:
Originally Posted by bridge
We've been talking with Putnam Park. It's VERY expensive, so it just might be out of our league. I have to run some numbers, but I think it'll be real close to NCM. If we have a lot of people voting, that shows me interest and I'll take the risk... Vote, guys!!
Why would Putnam be that expensive? :lo5l: Absurd for what it is.
I was asbsolutely FLOORED when I got the price. Here's what I received:
"Thank you for your quick reply. NCM may have been less expensive, but they also do not have garages available, which you would be able to rent. Most groups rent the garages to participants for $75-100 each per day."
Bridget is more familiar with the track - maybe she can shed a little light. I just never expected it. Maybe that was my mistake.
That's a silly reason, but it is what it is.
ugh so chrome froze up on my long ass response
cliffs: putnam is a club track like autobahn. very nice track, well maintained grounds. have rules. been there about 4 times myself. dan was there last oct. 10/10ths goes there alot.
looks like there's 3 tiers on tracks budget wise. lori can correct me if I'm wrong.
low end - memphis, o'reilly's
mid level - half NCM, half autobahn, half pitt, gingerman (?), gateway (this seems to work with our budget and fee around $200)
high scale - full NCM, full autobahn, full pitt, putnam, mid-ohio (expect at least $250-300 per day)
i think the only way to attain a "high scale" track is bump up entry fee, combine with other group, or attend someone else's track day there and follow their rules/guidelines.
by attending some one's else track day (most likely a fri or sat) that might make it possible for people only available on weekends. however i don't know how set in stone people are with a NG that goes from wed-sun vs thur-mon with the banquet being moved to sun instead of sat.
with that in mind, it prob costs more to book a "club day" vs open day with most club days tues-thur looking at this year's schedule. this is just dan and i speculating though. The Club Schedule « The Club at Putnam Park
or club days are what ever days that are not book by other clubs prior to the new track season.
I too am surprised that Putnam is as expensive as NCM and others but if they are now a club like Autobahn then I guess it makes sense. The going rate with 10/10ths is 290 a day or a significantly better deal is two days for 450. I'm going to Mid Ohio tomorrow for 290 which isn't terrible and Road America charges a similar premium. Autobahn on a Monday is 255. Must be BMW pricing...
Anyway Putnam is a fun course. Very safe. You can get into trouble in two turns but the walls are still very far off the track. The first turn is really fun and high speed once you figure it out. Once you figure out the line it is really rewarding. The paddock is great and the whole place is well maintained. You can go up in the tower and see 80% of the track.
ORP is an ok track. You can have some fun in the S's and enjoy unsettling your car with all the bumps. I never really liked the track being lined with steel 55 gallon drums or it crossing through the parking lot.
Gingerman is a fun track. The edition makes it a little more challenging to get the braking correct going downhill but still a very safe track. Would definitely go there again.
Gratten is one I've been meaning to hit. I hear its got some good elevation changes and a few blind corners. I don't know about the runoff and etc. Bman why do you go check it out for us?
I still think the best thing for NG roadcourse is to tag onto another groups track rental for a day. The people who want to race the road course end up paying approximately the same as if the NG hosted it but NG doesn't have to pay track insurance or run the event. That should account into some cheaper registration fees and bring up the NGs overall attendance imo. Plus the NG officials can relax and enjoy tracking their cars if they like. Most track day groups have driving instructors and classes to teach proper driving habits to beginners. Passing rules are strictly enforced and they are not afraid to boot anyone not following the rules. Isn't that safer for everyone? They also usually allow passengers in advanced and intermediate groups which has been a limited with the NGs insurance.
Downsides are there are other people on the track but most of them know what they are doing and will probably be faster than the 3/S's. I have yet to see someone driving in an unsafe manner not get removed promptly. No group needs that liability and they don't care about hurt feelings. Coordinating with the track rental group would hopefully go smoothly but dealing with some people can be a pain in the ass (haha). Most track days with another group would be Friday, Saturday, or Sunday. That may complicate the schedule but maybe not. I'm not opposed to racing on a Saturday or Sunday and leaving Monday if the start of NG is shifted a day.
Just my thoughts.
Thanks
Dan, when you do a track day, how much track time do you expect to get?
Update on voting:
18 people have voted. Indy is still ahead with 42 votes, but Pittsburgh is getting closer with 35. Michigan is now up to 11 votes.
Voting remains open through the end of the month.
Lori, here's the schedule today if it helps. Looks like about two hours and 40 mins.
Attachment 8168
I also like the idea of joining another groups track day. Has the NG committee ever considered Blackhawk Farms? (Rockford IL)
Joining with another group has a lot of complications, but we're looking into it. Usually, when I've tried in the past, groups aren't really interested in "sharing" their track day with another group. As for Blackhawk Farms, yeah... we looked into it a couple of years ago. We can't look into it again for 2016 because we don't have the seed money to move the event.
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