A1 Studs, Headlift Fix and still lifted - heres why- please read

Well, lets keep in mind peak boost on this pull was 25psi, and at 6500rpms it had dropped to 22-23psi.

We can debate timing all day long but its going to be different for each car. I bet a dollar had my head studs not been compromised it wouldn't of push a drop. As long as you can trust the tuner, and are not going for every last single HP possible at risk of the engine, theres always that safe but powerful zone.

Im far from a tuning expert myself, Im a rookie so I always ask the experts before making any changes, but the guys I work with I trust and have years of experience.. and the cars they have on the road are not blowing up and doing good at the track.

at the torque peak/peak boost, timing was around 10-11, I will have to look at the map to verify but somewhere in that range. we ramped it up after 5000rpm. I have seen guys take it way beyond that, not saying that's smart but I have seen a lot of tunes well into the 20's without lift of pushing coolant. Setup dependant of course. I think Chris was getting all the way up to 28 degrees on E85 up top on high boost.

Chris was running E95.

It's way easier on an engine to crank the boost up over 30-35psi and run minimal timing than it is to try any eek out every last hp at low boost with more timing.

I've blown way more head gaskets at 25-30psi and lots of timing than I have at 40psi and low single digits ramping up to 14-16* at 9,000 Rpms.

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Originally Posted by HilbillyHomeboy

as the dirty Kentuckian said

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:suspect:

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Originally Posted by HilbillyHomeboy

ARP's are known to be a waste of money. Stock is worlds better. That's ancient knowledge.
I wouldn't be scared to recreate my build with stock bolts.
Jeremy

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I was asking chatbox this... no one could remember for sure. Didn't Ray have stock headbolts (along with other modifications done) on his chameleon car? Or was it Chris Hill who runs stock headbolts?

I am all for making improvements, but I think car people (and especially guys from this forum... I'm not calling you out Streamin, just talking generalities) have a bad habit of trying to make things "better" before they ever come close to the current limitations of stock/simple. I am sure I'm guilty of it as well. Just seems to further over complicate an already fairly complicated system IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Streamln1

Its probably a combination of things, cylinder pressure, non flat washer surface giving me innacruate torque readings on the head studs, etc.

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Were your washers upside down by chance? I know stock has a flat side and a rounded side; could be a silly mistake like that.

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Originally Posted by Streamln1

Going e85 on much bigger injectors now, so that's going to significantly lower cylinder pressures, plus its cheaper.

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I'm not meaning to nit-pick, but how is e85 and bigger injectors going to lower cylinder pressures? Wouldn't your static cylinder pressure, and your boost, be the driving factors here and not injectors? I can see fuels reacting to pressure differently for sure... especially e85... but the fuel itself shouldn't have an effect on the pressure should it? Maybe I'm missing something fairly obvious here?

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Originally Posted by donniekak

It's way easier on an engine to crank the boost up over 30-35psi and run minimal timing than it is to try any eek out every last hp at low boost with more timing.

I've blown way more head gaskets at 25-30psi and lots of timing than I have at 40psi and low single digits ramping up to 14-16* at 9,000 Rpms.

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I've often wondered (and I might have made a thread on it once upon a time?) if there is any data,if plotted, that would show an intersection on HP output when you compare high boost/low timing to low boost/high timing. Obviously I don't mean extremes cause more air will very often make more power, but like 35psi/22 degrees vs 40psi/12degrees. I would be pretty interested in the power delivery/RPM's, and how the engine behaves as well. Lots of factors at play.

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Originally Posted by futurevr4man

:suspect:




I was asking chatbox this... no one could remember for sure. Didn't Ray have stock headbolts (along with other modifications done) on his chameleon car? Or was it Chris Hill who runs stock headbolts?

I am all for making improvements, but I think car people (and especially guys from this forum... I'm not calling you out Streamin, just talking generalities) have a bad habit of trying to make things "better" before they ever come close to the current limitations of stock/simple. I am sure I'm guilty of it as well. Just seems to further over complicate an already fairly complicated system IMHO.




Were your washers upside down by chance? I know stock has a flat side and a rounded side; could be a silly mistake like that.




I'm not meaning to nit-pick, but how is e85 and bigger injectors going to lower cylinder pressures? Wouldn't your static cylinder pressure, and your boost, be the driving factors here and not injectors? I can see fuels reacting to pressure differently for sure... especially e85... but the fuel itself shouldn't have an effect on the pressure should it? Maybe I'm missing something fairly obvious here?




I've often wondered (and I might have made a thread on it once upon a time?) if there is any data,if plotted, that would show an intersection on HP output when you compare high boost/low timing to low boost/high timing. Obviously I don't mean extremes cause more air will very often make more power, but like 35psi/22 degrees vs 40psi/12degrees. I would be pretty interested in the power delivery/RPM's, and how the engine behaves as well. Lots of factors at play.

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Theres a happy medium, too much timing will kill an engine in a hurry, not enough it will be slow... a good tuner will find you that sweet spot of safe vs power. Some tuners g E85 likes timing, but the problem is by the time you see the knock sensor start to make noise your already past the safe zone...so its good idea to keep an eye on that torque number.

Some pretty famous fast 3/S guys have run a lot of timing in their cars, Chris hill and Matt Monet for example.

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Originally Posted by futurevr4man

:suspect:




I was asking chatbox this... no one could remember for sure. Didn't Ray have stock headbolts (along with other modifications done) on his chameleon car? Or was it Chris Hill who runs stock headbolts?

I am all for making improvements, but I think car people (and especially guys from this forum... I'm not calling you out Streamin, just talking generalities) have a bad habit of trying to make things "better" before they ever come close to the current limitations of stock/simple. I am sure I'm guilty of it as well. Just seems to further over complicate an already fairly complicated system IMHO.




Were your washers upside down by chance? I know stock has a flat side and a rounded side; could be a silly mistake like that.




I'm not meaning to nit-pick, but how is e85 and bigger injectors going to lower cylinder pressures? Wouldn't your static cylinder pressure, and your boost, be the driving factors here and not injectors? I can see fuels reacting to pressure differently for sure... especially e85... but the fuel itself shouldn't have an effect on the pressure should it? Maybe I'm missing something fairly obvious here?




I've often wondered (and I might have made a thread on it once upon a time?) if there is any data,if plotted, that would show an intersection on HP output when you compare high boost/low timing to low boost/high timing. Obviously I don't mean extremes cause more air will very often make more power, but like 35psi/22 degrees vs 40psi/12degrees. I would be pretty interested in the power delivery/RPM's, and how the engine behaves as well. Lots of factors at play.

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From my understanding, the higher the octane rating the cooler it burns and is more stable, which lowers the cylinder pressure at a given boost number, e85 burns even cooler than race fuel too. And is much less likely to pre detonate which is hard on everything obviously and those cylinder pressures under a knock event are through the roof. So my comment was specifically about the fuel choice, the injectors are a given since I need a lot more fuel... I doing a lot of research myself on the subject. Although one would think that boost and power are directly related to the cylinder pressure its a lot more complex than that.

Washers were definitely right side up. I will snap some pics tomorrow at the machine shop when I stop by.

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Originally Posted by futurevr4man

I'm not meaning to nit-pick, but how is e85 and bigger injectors going to lower cylinder pressures? Wouldn't your static cylinder pressure, and your boost, be the driving factors here and not injectors? I can see fuels reacting to pressure differently for sure... especially e85... but the fuel itself shouldn't have an effect on the pressure should it? Maybe I'm missing something fairly obvious here?

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I'm guessing since E85 burns slower it reaches peak cylinder pressure later in the cycle (longer after TDC) assuming you keep timing the same.

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Originally Posted by familyMAN

Chris was running E95.

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Yeah, I remember reading that. A lot of people are still up in the 20's on ethanol..I don't plan on going to the ragged edge however.

I looked at the map from the coolant push, timing at 4000-4500 was at 12 degrees, at 6500 it was at 18, backed that entire area back down by 2 degrees for now.

Don't get pit road m head gasket. Get a hold of Saph. He made fire ring head gasket. Worked great on his gallant vr4 v6 which have massive head lift issue.

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Originally Posted by Streamln1

From my understanding, the higher the octane rating the cooler it burns and is more stable, which lowers the cylinder pressure at a given boost number, e85 burns even cooler than race fuel too. And is much less likely to pre detonate which is hard on everything obviously and those cylinder pressures under a knock event are through the roof. So my comment was specifically about the fuel choice, the injectors are a given since I need a lot more fuel... I doing a lot of research myself on the subject. Although one would think that boost and power are directly related to the cylinder pressure its a lot more complex than that.

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Hmm. Makes sense. Fair enough.