Ok so I unplugged the logger, grounded the connector, so the timing should have been constant right? When I did that, the A/F jumped around still... This points to air or fuel, right?
Thanks!
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Ok so I unplugged the logger, grounded the connector, so the timing should have been constant right? When I did that, the A/F jumped around still... This points to air or fuel, right?
Thanks!
Just checked voltage at the pump and seemed fairly solid at 13 volts. Check my original post for all details (not on my laptop right now).
I'm fairly confident the problem is related to the fuel system unless the wideband is acting goofy which I haven't been able to look at yet. I can also pressure test again but doubt that's an issue.
Any ideasa? May just spend the $80 in supplies to hook up my AFPR with gauge to see if that helps/how fuel pressure looks.
Where is your widebnd located?, that`s not normal behaviour at all if the key is on but the engine not running!. If I turn the engine off at stoich idle and re-key on so the wideband doesn`t loose power it will gradually drift lean (will take maybe a minute to hit 20:1), it never reads rich/lean/rich justs drifts lean..Quote:
Originally Posted by HLxDrummer
I think you are tracing a wideband sensor or controller error!.
Ya I thought that was strange... you still think that is the problem even if it reads normal during warm up and engine braking?Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMac
I wouldn`t trust it personally, what wideband is it? and where have you located the sensor?. If you think about it there`s no reason for it to read rich after leaning out with the engine stopped..
The controllers use a PID program to work out the AFR, the sensor could be chucking all sorts of odd numbers out but they will be averaged out by the controller, maybe why it only shows up with the engine stopped?.
Its an Innovate LC-1. I called them about it and they reccomended I recalibrate it and view the AFR through the digital output instead of analog. I need to pick up a jack and stands before I can calibrate though so well see. Any ways to test the O2 when I have it out besides checking with brake cleaner soaked rag?
The O2 is in the test pipe.
I was thinking maybe wind was blowing in the tailpipe with the engine off, diluting the air unevenly? After a while it'll go full lean, though.
Test it with a lighter. Press the switch on your lighter to let fumes out but don't create a flame. Hold it up to the sensor and read the measurement.Quote:
Originally Posted by HLxDrummer
This process is explained further in the LC-1 instruction manual.
Correction: it is not in the manual. I wonder where I saw this test outlined? I know it's in a wideband manual SOMEWHERE.
Regardless, you should try their suggestion on recalibration. Do a free air recalibration, reinstall, and view your AFRs via digital.
PDF to manual if you need it: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/s...C-1_Manual.pdf
I will definitely try that, hopefully Sunday or early next week. Thank you!
My Zeitronix ZT-2 has never done that, before you pull the sensor out run the car at idle and after stopping it get someone to quickly cap the exhaust end and re-check, if it is still rich/lean/rich then something`s not right!. Also re-calibrating it will sort out any global AFR drift on the sensor but probably no the odd behaviour but it`s worth a go!.Quote:
Originally Posted by HLxDrummer
Goood idea with capping the exhaust! I was thinking recalibrating wouldn't help either but figured it was worth a try. Any way to test the sensor when its out other than the free air/saturated rag test? I will also check for exhaust leaks while I'm under there.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMac
Updated the first post. Just install new fuel pump, filter, regulator, and a 98 ECU and seems like the original problem is there in addition to a new one.
Also wanted to mention I relocated the injector resistor pack to a painted area. Does this need to be grounded?
Yes, sand down the area where it connects.
Still have yet to try some of my ideas (haven't been home in a while), but any idea why the TB nipples have no vacuum? Do I have the wrong gasket? Need to modify the gasket?
Alright I haven't been at the car for a while (I'm at school), but my Dad said he took a look at a few things:
Swapped the MAF with a '97 SL, no change.
Grounded the injector resistor pack, no change. He also said it doesn't look like it needs to be grounded.
Took out the wideband and put a rag saturated in brake cleaner around it. AFR gradually and erratically went to 10:1 the first time and the second time it went a little more smoothly/quickly. When he took off the rag, it would slowly move to around 15:1 and bounce around there for a long time before it went to 20:1. The guys at Innovate said they've never heard of this before but they have no suggestion other than to try changing the sensor.
Even if the sensor is bad and causing a wacky AFR, the car is still idling bad now, however. Any ideas? I keep thinking it has something to do with timing since the datalogger is saying the timing is jumping around at idle. Could be anything, though.
Also, any idea why the TB nipples don't have vacuum. Did STM send me the wrong TB gasket (the little holes in the TB that look like they correspond to the nipples are covered by the gasket which looks like it has indents where it should be cut out)?
Thanks!
That's definitely not a good gasket if the holes aren't cut out.
So there should definitely be holes there?
Do the NAs not have nipples up there and maybe I got the gasket for a NA? Guess I'll have to contact STM lol
Wait my bad, I misread what you said. There is just dimples there.
Hm.. Well that is wierd. Do you know how the nipples get vacuum? I was looking when I had the TB off and couldn't find any connection between the nipples and the intake tract.
There`s different Throttle Body gaskets depending on model, EGR fitted etc.. Mine only has 1 vac hole but it`s a 1st gen GTO..
Gasket orientation is important too
Interesting... I emailed STM to see what they think. I had been driving around with it like that for a while with the FPR hooked up to one of those nipples! I don't know how the car had a reasonable AFR running 43 PSI constantly...Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMac
Do you know which way it is supposed to go? I wasn't real sure when I installed it, just put it back how the old one was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimvr4
Tab goes up
I definitely have the tab up... do you know what side it goes on (fuel rail or firewall)?
Tab should be towards the firewall.
^^ Yep, tab to firewall. I`m surprised your engine`s in one piece still if the FPR wasn`t correcting for boost!.
If you`re unsure it`s getting a proper signal it maybe a good idea to drill and tap the plenum for a barbed pipe fitting and run it from there?.
I know, I was shocked! The AFR was normal though so I don't know what was up there.Quote:
Originally Posted by KeithMac
I have an aftermarket FPR with a gauge on it now, so I can make sure it is working correctly (which is does when using the nipple on the front or back of the plenum).
Just have to figure out why it is driving all goofy. I guess I'll buy a new wideband sensor and check for boost leaks and go from there.
Well I have a small update. My dad fired up the car yesterday and he said it idled just fine which is strange... then he said when he turned off the key and the turbo timer was keeping the car running it started idling funny again.
This is really wierd because when I was home with it, it was running bad all the time. Could this have something to do with something electrical since it is doing it when the TT is on? Have something to do with the new fuel system?
The car ran ok for the most part before I did all this work, but after I swapped everything out it started audibly running bad...
I did a bunch of wiring (replace crimp connectors on ignition wires with solder, shortened/resoldered TT wiring, put in 98 ECU with PNP harness, did some wiring with the boost gauge and boost control solenoid, etc.) so maybe that has something to do with it?
I'm going home saturday and I'm probably going to pressure test, replace the WBO2 sensor, and maybe pop some holes in the TB gasket. I would love to do those three things and drive it back to school, but I don't want to get home and it's running like crap again and have no clue what to check.
I'd toss the turbo timer in the dumpster just to have one less thing to worry about.
Well I threw in a new wideband sensor and it fixed that problem. Put on the 99 tune and it fixed the idle issue. For some reason my tune with closed loop disabled threw the idle out of wack. Just figured I'd give you guys an update. Thanks again for the help, power delivery is super smooth now!
Awesome! Glad to hear you got it fixed.
Me too! Power delivery is silky smooth and AFR is stable as can be :)
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